Got a deck? Solar panels now a plug-in appliance | Hacker News Reader

Got a deck? Solar panels now a plug-in appliance

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42 pointsiProject28 comments

Some rural locations have very expensive electricity so this is a great option for plug and play.

The fact that it's only half the 15 amp maximum for house wiring safety and that it turns off when there is a blackout so electricians don't get killed by the backfeed are really nice touches.

Now bring on the clones for half the price ;-)

Generally the expensive part in rural locations is paying to get miles of lines in. This cannot be used offgrid.

Also, when you have a long line to a rural location, and the power goes out due to an ice storm, welcome to the bottom of the repair priority list. I've been there for up to 1.5 weeks before. :) Having the solar power cut out at this point is not a good design feature.

Sounds great for urban use though.

This price would have sounded great a few years ago, but you can get whole house solar installs for ~$4k, enough to replace your power. We got a 4.6 kw system installed on our house for less than $4k out of pocket. Check out SolarCity or any solar company that offers a lease to own program.

Did you use solar city? Any idea how panels affect resale?

Yes I used them... The contract is transferrable. I have fully paid off the panels already so I suspect that it will add a lot of value to our house if we decided to sell.

What do the costs look like? How long does it take to pay off? How is maintenance handled (is there maintenance?)

You can't compare the price of leasing a product to the price to own something outright.

For something that loses value over time, I would argue that it makes a good deal of sense to compare the price of leasing to the price of owning outright.

Its a lease to own, after 15 years you own it outright. For the 15 years the system is fully maintained and warranted under the contract.

$1,000 seems much more affordable to me than $4,000. Four times more affordable.

Also this looks to be aiming for a different market than people that really need a whole house solar system or people who don't really need it but can afford the $4,000 out-of-pocket. Which actually is a bigger market, because most people don't have $4,000 handy and most people don't have a real immediate need for whole-house solar, but there are a LOT of people that want to decrease their energy bill or just REALLY want to "be green". The lower the price goes, the more people will buy solar panels, just based on the concept of having solar panels and being more sustainable.

$1,000 per individual 240-watt panel. If you want a full kilowatt you're up to $5,000 already.

For those that own their own home I think the loss of efficiency versus a professional install of your roof would negate any savings.

For those that rent and want to be able to take their panels with them, it's a winner of a product idea.

i was just reading about micro inverters the other day. one possible advantage is that smaller systems (less than 1KW?) may not be subject to the certified electrician, plan reviews, mains interconnect shutoff for solar on the outside of the house, etc. read up on it a little, and doing a micro install may really save some money.

read through this[1], and you get an idea the panels and inverter is the easy part. the hard part is compliance with local ordinances.

i just started reading about the micro inverters[2] and these are very different than a 12vdc to 110vac inverter you plug into your car. they track the mains power to dump your solar power back into the line at the correct phase to the grid, and if the mains shuts off, these have to shut off (called island mode? ) and not back feed. from what i can tell, these little inverters are around $1/W so for a 230W PV panel, plan on spending at least $500 total to get the matching micro inverter. really a pretty good deal.

[1] http://www.rctlma.org/building/content/docs/284_79_photovolt...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_micro-inverter

I don't quite get this. For a DIY kit, I wish they'd use simpler language. Do I just prop these up in the backyard and plug them in to an outside outlet? Is that it?

That's what I don't quite get either... so, you plug this into your outdoor outlet. Does that then provide extra power to your house? To just that circuit?

it will back feed through the breaker of the circuit you plug it into and help power anything on that side of your breaker box.

yup. it is suppose to be that simple.

Great writing! I've known about this hardware for years but it still sold me. (at least until the 20 year payoff calculation.)

I have two problems with this. First, it is a severe safety issue for power company linemen if your local power company does not know about your system and know where the external shutoff switch is. Second, we installed a solar system last year and the installation (physical panel installation and electronics, with interactions with the local power company) as only about 13% of the bill ($1800/$13600).

From the third paragraph:

"If there is a loss of grid power, the panels will stop delivering current because it could be a danger to line workers, according to the company."

I missed that, thanks! That makes the $1000 panel kit (which probably generates 200 to 250 watts when it is sunny) very price competitive. That said, I really like my large professionally installed system and I like getting paid by my local power company.

Yeah, the plug-n-play is neat but why not do it properly, and get a two-way meter?

Why is the system limited to 5 solar panels? Is there a reason I would not be able to purchase 25 of these and put them on the deck I don't have?

Their site looks like they could use a little design assistance: http://spinrayenergy.com/

Their "Product Specs/Data" page is a 404.

From the site:

"Already bought a "DeckPower120" solar appliance and want to add more green power? "DeckPower120" solar was designed for easy connection, and additional kits can be added over time, up to 5 kits can be connected into a single outside receptacle, and can produce over 1,000 watts of clean green energy!"

http://spinrayenergy.com/DeckPower120.html

So that's a total of 25 solar panels (each kit has five panels).

So if you have 1000 watts* / 120 v you get 8.3 Amps. Most (US) household 120 are wired at 15 amps max (via the wire gauge + circuit breaker). 20 amps circuits require heavier wire and larger circuit breakers.

*1000 watts assume max output from solar panels.

I should send this to my master electrician brother to see what he thinks of these.

Incorrect, each kit only comes with 1 panel. So 5 kits means you get 5 panels.

"The DeckPower120™ solar appliance comes with everything you need to start receiving FREE supplimental home solar energy: (1) 240 watt high efficiency mono-crystalline solar panel listed to UL 1703 "

Anyone know if how many years of usage it would take to gain back the cost of the $1000 panel kit?

It depends on:

Where (climate) and Location on house (shading) and Electricity Price and Discount Rate and *Utility/Government Incentives (vary by utility)

but at $5.50/W (assuming installation is free) in a place like Phoenix, you're looking at about 27 years before incentives, about 20 years after.

$5.50/W is kinda steep nowadays, but probably a decent deal for a hobbyist-sized system of this nature.

sure, ballpark math: 10c per KW hour, approx a 200W panel. assume 10 perfect hours of sun each day (unlikely), then you have 20c a day. $4 a month, $50 a year, so that takes you 20 years (simple math, none of the typical MBA voodo applied).. and its the weekend my brain is on holiday and no spreadsheet on the ipad, so that could be totally wrong.

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