HP Tries Desperately to Make 'Printer as a Subscription' a Thing
techdirt.com
techdirt.com
Brother is far behind the competition from Epson and Canon when it comes to prosumer color inkjet/inktank printing, as I discovered to my cost. I'm referring to SMB printers in the $400-$1000 range, not the $80 consumer injkets that crap out after 50 pages.
Brother colour printers top out at 4 inks (CMYK), which will make most images look washed out, greens resembling blue, etc.
Yes they are economical with the ink use, but the difference between a Brother and an Epson/Canon (which support 6 inks) for colour is night and day. You'll get way better quality color printing at Staples printing from a rental workstation .
That isn't to say I support this ridiculous model of subscriptions. It's just to say that "Buy Brother" isn't the answer for everybody.
Extrapolate from there and think of how often you'd send pictures to a print shop.
Even cheap inkjet printers aren't worth the cost for photos.
Because inkjet printing for consumers generally sucks. It's just an awful technology for consumers who may go days/weeks/months between needing to print something. I tell any non-tech friends that I can to avoid inkjet printers like the plague - they always have a tendency to break down and be non functional at the moment you need them the most.
The people who actually need an inkjet printer are people who do a lot of crafts or projects who need quick turnaround.
I personally have a middle option of a color laser printer and while tbh the prints look like shite, they are good enough for my projects.
So fucking wasteful.
If you have to print anything that might come into contact with even very small drops of water, inkjet will be a disaster for you.
Laser prints are heat fixed and not water soluble...
If you need color but don't usually need photo quality, buy a color laser.
These are the kind of projects that I’m talking about. If you know you need an inkjet printer, you know.
My friends can attest to a photo center not letting you do any of this on their printers.
The Epson replaced a Brother color laser printer that served me well 5+ years, but of course color laser prints don't approach the quality of color inkjet prints.
also, the "just a tank of ink" model makes it super easy to try out different kinds of ink - you mentioned "photo grey" and "photo black" but there are actually specialty inks for B+W prints that you can experiment with etc.
If you have a need for something specific, you’d need to investigate the right product. At this point in time, printing pictures at home is a special requirement, as most people either don’t print them at all, or they use the convenience store down the street where it’s much cheaper than maintaining the equipment at home.
"Buy Brother" is still my answer. If you need high quality prints, don’t buy a consumer grade printer.
For photo quality I just use the local pharmacy.
I don’t understand how HP sells anything competing with them.
But it’s a worrisome trend that is now spreading to so many areas. We need to opt out and start using alternatives. Even if it means using an inferior product.
If you have a firmware newer than that, it may be possible to find an older pre-locking release and downgrade:
* https://old.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/w9bc3g/downdgradi...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721 - Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers? (2020)
There was some mentioning of forensic tracking requirements for printers in the comments:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 - List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots (2017)
But I am not sure if forensic requirements is the reason why people didn't want to make printers. I suspect the demand for printing at home has declined to the point where making a good printer is no longer economically worthwhile.
And don't get me started on the patent minefield that covers many aspects of printer technology. You will have to license those - or be sued into oblivion.
Good luck!
People calling for "someone" to make open source this or that are usually completely ignoring elementary economics of the endeavor. It really has zero to do with any sort of government tracking dots conspiracy (not all printers do that) or that there is supposedly no demand to print at home (if that was true then HP etc. would have been bankrupt already and not making more crappy consumer printers).
Oh and that completely ignores the elephant in the room - do you think that the fact the printer firmware is by some hypothetical magic open source now will prevent the OEM from DRMing the toner/inks? The DRM is not meant to prevent dedicated individuals to bypass it - only to keep 99% of people who barely know how to put new consumables in from using competitor's supplies. Those are certainly not going to flash firmware without the DRM into their printers en masse.
Most people don't unlock/jailbreak their phones either - they want to use them as phones, not to hack this or that. They don't have the technical skills required either - and won't pay others to do it in any significant quantity. Heck, if you want to hack your DRMed printer you could do that even today already, there are hacks and DRM bypasses for many of those DRMed printers online ...
An open source printer is a mirage and a complete red herring.
Brother is going down the same path, sadly. They started pushing their EZ-Print subscription in a software update a few months ago.
Big talk about unlimited ink...but the absurdly low page limit (20 per month) is well hidden. It's completely omitted from the main info page [0] and on the page where is was included it is cleverly hidden beneath the fold in a place where there is little indication that there is a scrollable section hidden [1] [2]. And the spacing is inconsistent in exactly right places to achieve this effect on the most common resolution...1080. [3]
Spicy cancellation fee is also hidden behind endless scrolling animations and collapsible sections right at of the FAQ.
My condolences to any HP customers/victims.
[0] https://www.hp.com/us-en/all-in-plan/printers.html
[1] https://i.imgur.com/UMa6MRz.png
[2] https://www.hp.com/us-en/hp-all-in-plan-enroll/pdp-config?sk...
Vote with your wallet.
I think they still make good calculators though??? (/me hugs my 15C).
Sadly, they don't make the 15C any more.
Below is where to find a near next exact simulation for your desktop and phone.
On Windows, I cannot even scan a document without first logging in to their "HP Smart" App with an HP account. And it takes Camera Access Permissions for some reason. And it installs a background task that wakes up my PC every night for some kind of diagnostic scan.
Printing as service doesn't make any sense unless someone was printing and mailing the output to me. That would actually be worthwhile for a lot of people.
This is called a print shop, and has existed for basically as long as printers have. You might not like the prices they charge for a single print + mailing, though.
But doesn't make sense when you've personally purchased the machine to do the printing. At this point you should be your own print shop.
The thing for me is that neither the razor blade model nor the subscription model fit my actual use of the product. For me a printer is essentially a piece of infrastructure. It's not the kind of thing I upgrade or want to pay any attention to. I buy one, set it up, and basically run it until it dies or falls out of support. I only replace them when I absolutely have to, and I would prefer that to be as infrequent as possible.
I'm willing to pay for something that fits that model. Charge me the real cost for the physical printer - including R&D and ongoing support - and in turn come back down to reality on the consumables.
I'm saddened that no one can make this model work, but I understand why. Very few people are going to want to go from $100 printers to $500 printers. Though, as the world becomes more paperless I can see this occurring in the long tail - "Hey, buy a printer. Never know when you'll need it and it's going to last you."
Really a shame that they are killing their business. I really loved their printers.
HP’s reputation for consumer-grade peripherals is already low enough as it is, HP is not afraid of losing “informed-enthusiast” customers - they’ve already done that.
We are not HP’s desired customer base; they don’t want our patronage.
But we are the crowd that normal people tend to ask for recommendations when they're deciding on equipment purchases.
What was _not_ great was the crappy wireless chipset on the printer. I guess it did not support multiple APs well. I cancelled my subscription.
I need to print color, so I have a Canon now. Works very well.
It works perfectly for me, but if they tried to pull this same $7/mo minimum here, I’d ditch it immediately. I’m not paying $84/year just for the few times a year I need to print something.
Unless you are doing an enormous amount of printing, I can't imagine this making a lot of sense at home. I print maybe three times a year.
+1 Brother.
I've bought both Canon and Brother, both were pretty nice (laser of course.. with even color laser printers being $200, there is no reason to keep inkjet at home)
The TL;DR is that I think Instant Ink is an absolutely fine program that's ruined by morons that either can't read or think they're devious and think they're going to be able to swindle HP out of ink for pennies.
The first thing you absolutely must know is that Instant Ink is an optional program. You still have the ability to buy and use normal ink cartridges. IMO, that alone should shrug most criticism of the Instant Ink program. You think it's a scam? Fine. Don't subscribe to it. Done.
Second, Instant Ink is not a subscription to ink cartridges, it's a subscription to printed pages. The ink is merely provided as a vehicle to provide the printed pages that you're paying for. That's why the Instant Ink subscription tiers are based on printed pages, and not based on ink used.
This means that if you subscribe to Instant Ink, get your cartridges, then cancel the plan, of course you don't get to keep printing with the cartridges! You didn't pay for the ink!
This is not scumbag behavior. You didn't pay for the ink. You paid for printed pages. You canceled your subscription, your quota ran out, so why would you think you get to keep printing with those cartridges?
But...people think they're geniuses! They rub their hands together while thinking "Heheh, I'll buy a month of Instant Ink, get my cartridges, then cancel, and I'll have received ink for only $3!" then go into an absolute rage against HP when they go through their quota and their printer won't print anymore. It's completely stupid.
If you print frequently and will actually use most of your quota, Instant Ink is a great program that actually does save you money on ink! But people misunderstand (likely deliberately) how it works, and think it's a scam and that HP is a shitty company for it.
Behavior is frequently hard to anticipate, but this isn't one of those cases. If your scheme involves everyone comprehending subscription terms you've failed: people don't do that, for better or worse.
So HP customers are either crooks or morons? My spidey-sense is tingling here from the level of disdain this expresses.
Perhaps, if a "fine program" can be ruined because people don't understand it, the problem is with the program and not the people.
Imagine you buy a can of turtle wax that locks after 20 opens. "We don't sell wax! We sell car waxes!" A water hose that sells sips of water.
You're buying ink. Just because HP wants to market it as something different doesn't make their bullshit true. Unless they're shipping you a printed page, they're selling you ink and then charging you per use, their bottom line doesn't list pages printed, it lists profit per cartridge. People just don't like buying an object and paying for it like it's a service, because it's an obvious scam. Ink is a product.
Early on revenue will increase but, after some time, HP will wake up to a dwindling customer base and alternatives eating their lunch. No doubt that those same MBA's will have already been promoted and/or left, whilst touting their "wins".
Limitless paper in a paperless world
Edit: So apparently some group of people wants this, or has been hoodwinked into it.
Lots of discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39556325
What 15 links and what unclear sources?
There's 4 links in the article, 2 of which are direct links to HP pages that pertain to what is in the paragraph, 1 is direct link to a video that is referenced, and 1 is past coverage about a lawsuit. All are acting as sources and all are pretty clear to me?
Anyways this isn't even news, already talked about almost a week ago
I put this in the same category as Wendy's attempting "surge" pricing to make more money during busy times. I really can't imagine wanting to pay extra for a basic hamburger that the drugged out employees can't seem to get right even on the best of days. Make something better, and I'll pay more.
And frankly, the math isnt bad.
Looking at their cheapest plan which is $7 a month for 20 pages. 20 color prints from staples is $13.20. 20 black and white prints is only $4 so if you are never doing color it is questionable.
But the math gets better if you go slightly higher. 50 pages (2.5x the previous tier) is only $9 instead of 6. 50 color prints from staples is $33. 50 black and white prints from staples is $10.
And yes, I realize that if you were to buy the printer and buy the ink it would likely be cheaper. But first that requires being able to spend the money on a printer, which not everyone may have that money or it will have to go on a credit card.
Second you may have to worry about dry ink if you really print that infrequently (I honestly don't know how big of a problem this really is, but I know its a thing I see repeated a lot).
I am just saying, HP has some some shady stuff. I am not necessarily giving them a pass with this, but for infrequent (but consistent) printing it isnt horrible and you can do it at home instead of needing to go out.
Edit: However that privacy policy is horrible, and does really ruin a plan like this.
Clarification, $7 a month for 0-20 pages. That is crazy.
You get 20 pages credit, which btw carries over to 3 times your monthly plan. So if you know your going to be printing somewhat consistently (which I said in my original comment) and you will use the pages the math lines up.
Even if we just look at the fact that it adds 10-15 pages (I don't know why its a range) of $1 after you use your pages that is still cheaper than going to staples.
I am comparing this to going out and getting prints from staples. because thats what this is, this is a subscription service meant to target infrequent (but consistent) printing that people may just go to staples for.
People that may not want to think about wether their printer works (this includes a warranty btw), what their ink level is and not need to drop a decent amount of money on ink when they run out, etc.
The simple fact is, this is cheaper going to those stores to print. That alone means it is competitively priced.
If it isn't for you, thats fine. But it would not be hard to justify this compared going to staples on a regular basis. Especially if you don't already have a printer.
But if you know you are going to use it (like maybe you already take a regular trip to a printer), you know how much you are going to print, it isnt horrible.
Sure being locked in for 2 years sucks, but given they are sending you hardware some sort of contract is likely required.
And if you cancel within a year you pay a $120 fee ($60 if more than a year and less than two years). Meanwhile, you could get an identical-except-the-serial-number printer model (ENVY 6065e) from Best Buy for $71.
What if I want to cancel my printer plan?
You can cancel anytime. However, if you cancel after the first 30 days but still within the first two years, there is a cancellation fee.
Printer
HP ENVY 6020e
After 30 days and up to 12 months from enrollment date
$120
After 12 months and up to 24 months from enrollment date
$60But part of looking at this should be looking at your current printing habbits, if I already go to staples on a monthly basis and print 20ish pages. This is cheaper unless those pages are black and white. If I print 50 its cheaper no matter what.
And yes I know you can go buy the printer, but lets not forget that this monthly cost also includes the ink and warranty if anything goes wrong.
Again here, I am not saying it is the best deal. But the math is not as bad as people are jumping at if you already know what your printing habits are and you just want to bring it home.
Printers are becoming less and less necessary. Even my cats' veterinarian offers to have care instructions and visit information e-mailed to me rather than printed.
But rather than try to find something else to produce and leave behind a dying industry, they're doubling down and enshittifying.
I found a slightly older popular make&model of printer that does what I want, can be airgapped/datadioded, and I'd guess will have plentiful third-party supplies for many years. (Barring trade issues that would mean we have much bigger problems than printing.)
And I'm not going to tell you HN bastids which make&model that is. While I decide whether I can stockpile a few new-old-stock backup units.