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Comment by beirut_bootleg | Hacker News Reader

Permit me to disagree with about all of your conclusions here.

First of all, the cassettes are returnable. This is also mentioned on their website. * https://daan.tech/discover-bob-cassette/

> Each Bob cassette is returnable and reusable. We refill them and put them back on the market. Close the loop, lower your carbon footprint.

You're also NOT required to use the cassettes. You can just throw standard dishwasher tablets in. This is mentioned in Bob's manual, and probably on the website as well. I've been doing this for years and had no issue. There is no DRM-like aspect to Bob.

And finally, it's not a worse washing machine as you say, it's just smaller and more flexible (wrt plumbing), and as Techmoan mentions in his intro, this is a very strong advantage of Bob for people living in small European apartments.

(source: owner of Bob)

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> Each Bob cassette is returnable and reusable.

Yes, in theory, which requires from you the effort of packaging it up, paying postage, plan time to go to the post office, etc - or you could just throw it in the trash for exactly the same visible effect and be done with it. Even if people want to mail them back, this sounds like exactly the kind of task that will perpetually stay on the "I'll look into that when I have time" list, until they finally just want to get rid of it and throw it in the trash.

But it's good for shifting the blame, because then the pollution is not DaanTech's fault but those of individual consumers.

> You're also NOT required to use the cassettes. You can just throw standard dishwasher tablets in.

Doesn't this contradict what the article was saying? At least there was a quote from DaanTech somewhere that you have to have a cassette inserted to start a wash.

You need a cassette inserted, but it can be empty.

Even if they ship it back, i'd really doubt the environmental impact of shipping something halfway across the country is less than a few gallons of water per dishwasher load.

Eh, shipping is extremely cheap. Might want to double check those assumptions.

It would be nice if companies like this gave a significant benefit for returning cartridges, especially given the enormous markup on the detergent. 25 or even 50 percent off if you send your empty cartridges back. They would still extract the absurd full price from the lazy.

> cassettes are returnable

Of the fraction that gets returned, how many are actually reused? It's black plastic with a shine to it and it'll show scratches easily. Does the factory even have the facilities to clean them out and refurbish them for next use?

Yes, tfa shows an excerpt from Bob saying they have the facilities to clean and reuse the cartridges.

tfa?

The f...ine article

I think the abbreviation was (and probably still is) popular on Slashdot

Or, more kindly, the featured article.

It's any acronym that's often used when someone wants to point out that a question could have been answered by reading the fine article that is being discussed. TFA = The F'ing Article.

Others have explained, but here is the history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM

What's the carbon footprint of transporting the empty cassettes back for refilling?

What percentage of Bob's customers bother to do that?

> What percentage of Bob's customers bother to do that?

Would these people use a cleaner solution anyway? I mean, you can say that of any refilling system, if people don't use it.

It's more difficult if you have lots of special containers (in this case with integrated electronics) that can only be sent back to a specific shop.

My dishwasher uses detergent powder which comes in simple plastic containers that can be dealt with via regular plastic waste collection.

Nj recently banned single use plastic bags. Now instead of people actually reusing the reusable bags forever they just throw them out almost every time. Everyone who buys this machine is not going to go out of their way to return the casettes. America is obsessed with convenience and will continute throwing out perfectly reusable things until we have a massive cultural shift.

Whole point of convenience stores is to be convenient. Carrying a big ass bag with me for the off chance I go to the store is just silly.

We keep reusable bags in the car for every time we go to the grocery store. I think the entire country would only benefit from banning single-use plastic bags nationally, and I'm not sure how you could have an issue with that.

I mostly agree, but here in NYC I don’t have a car to keep the bags in. If I stop at the grocery store on my way home from work, I either have to have planned ahead and put a reusable bag in my work backpack, or I have to buy more reusable bags (which eventually get tossed because we have too many of them).

It’s definitely better to have the bag with me, and just typing this out made me realize I can keep one or two in my backpack at all times.

I personally keep in my daily backpack a reusable Baggu that packs down nicely and doesn’t take up much space. As long as you have a daily bag/purse/whatever and you’re not strapped for space, it’s pretty easily solved, yeah. I live in not-NYC so I also keep a bag in the car.

I have some sympathy if you find yourself on a weekend out and about and needing to spontaneously buy some victuals and don’t have any bag on you - but that’s the cost of us having less litter.

Don't even need a Baggu. Single use bags aren't inherently single use, they are just cheap enough to throw away. No one prevents you from bringing a tight-packing lightweight "single use" bag back to the store to use again.

Well, I suppose that’s perfectly fine if you’re the wasteful sort of person who uses a personal vehicle instead of a bike or public transit.

But what about the responsible people who actually care about reducing their carbon footprint by not unnecessarily carrying 3000 lbs of steel everywhere they go?

I live in central Alabama. Would take over 4 hours to walk or bike to get groceries. Not everyone lives in a huge city and the ones in Alabama are too dangerous to walk around in without concealed carrying a firearm (except for Huntsville).

Do you want to move out? Sounds like South Africa levels of dire.

Is this based on particular evidence, or just a feeling?

I lived in Birmingham for a while (admittedly not in the downtown), and this was not my experience at all, nor have I ever heard this from anyone else I knew, including people that did live downtown. Obviously, there are better and worse areas like everywhere else, but most of the city is basically fine IMO.

Those responsible people are welcome to do so, but they are statistically irrelevant and so have no place inarge scale planning.

The issue I have is already stated in the first message. You just don't want to accept it.

I have another question for you while I have your attention; how do you handle trash? Do you just have a bin with no liner and you carry that to outside and pour it in to the big bin? Or do you buy plastic bags at the store to line your bin and then carry that plastic bag filled with crap to the bigger bin?

I was confused by this so I looked it up [0]. The point I had missed was that stores and delivery services still provide bags like before, but now they're heavier bags designed for reuse. And people still throw them away like before.

Result: Now there's even more plastic in the waste stream.

[0] https://nyti.ms/3R8lCse

This machine is for Europeans.

Why do you think it's more ecologically sustainable to deliver these cartridges to consumers and then have them be sent back, meaning an extra trip?

It is more eco friendly to have them be put out with the recycling and use a readily recycled plastic.

Beyond that it is far more friendly to just let the consumer use regular detergent from a bulk bottle that can be bought anywhere.

I got one because it's the only mini dishwasher that can fit in my kitchen. The cassettes don't clean that thoroughly compared to normal dishwasher tabs, so I just use those instead.

How much fuel needs t be burned to ship these cassettes each way?

Pretty sure he addresses every one of your criticisms.

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