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Comment by anonzzzies | Hacker News Reader

I co founded a 400 person company started in 1996 and sold in 2011; we had only 2 people leave (we fired a few but that’s not job hopping) before 2008. I have another company for the past 10 years and it’s nearly impossible to keep people, especially during/after covid, no matter the pay. I would say it definitely increased from my pov.

Edit: reasons for leaving are; 1) want a bigger company for security (which is not really a thing here as you get paid even if the company goes bankrupt or you are fired; also I have funds for 10+ years for every person we hire; it’s not possible for us to go bankrupt as I am risk averse these days) 2) wanting to do resume driven dev; in that case indeed I wish them luck but good riddance; those are the most worthless to me; wish I could detect that behaviour earlier, but for obvious reasons, they try to hide that

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Ultimately its really hard to generalise when it comes to job hoppers. It can be good, or bad, for both employer and employee.

As an employer we expect folk to hop[1] a bit in their 20s. If that extends into their 30s or beyond that's a red flag. It suggests either the candidate will leave us soon (if they are instigating the hops) or that they're a bad employee (if the keep getting fired.) Neither is a good look.

Equally hopping as you get older gets harder. A 55 year old who hasn't held a job for more than 5 years is not terribly appealing to me.

On the up side, the serial hopper who is 32, just got married, has a kid on the way, and brings a bunch of skills is probably worth a punt.

[1] I'd define a "hop" as a function of age. Anything less than 2 years is a red flag. For older folk a regular pattern of < 5 years is a flag.

I think your equating hopping with age is misplaced. Yes, younger do hop more, there are plenty more senior people that maybe want something new and interesting - making it less about making more $$

I'm pointing out that as an employer (not in a startup), I'm not that excited about hiring a hopper. We tend to want folk to hang around since we invest a lot of time and effort in their training, domain knowledge etc. Knowing that someone will move on in a couple years just isn't appealing to me.

I would never hire a hopper willingly and I don’t quite know why some companies do. If I see a bunch of short arrangements on LinkedIn, then it goes on the ‘no’ pile. With the current market here, I have some hoppers begging to try them as ‘they promise they won’t hop’, but I have no way to enforce that; no one cares about options and timing bonuses and raises doesn’t work. We prefer people who stay 10+ years at a position and who don’t ’get bored’; we don’t want to be the TikTok attention span of saas; if people have that, they have to find something else.

A 55 year old job hopper is common. They are sometimes called consultants or they work short term employment contracts. They travel like a 20 year old.

Plus no matter how old you are working for startups means frequent employment changes. Don't be ageist.

absolutely people "semi retire", they get a few consulting gigs here and there, and earn a bit from that. They're usually very good at what they do and get called in to accomplish a specific task, perhaps one that needs a very special skillset.

That's different to a 55 year old, looking for a permanent position, with a history of job hopping. And to be clear i's not the age that worries me, it's the hopping. I believe a 30-somthing who's looking to "settle down a bit more" - I don't believe a 55 yo with that story.

I follow the idea that when people show you who they are, believe them. As an _employer_ I'm just not excited by people who are around for a couple years, then move on. Assuming there's competition for the post, I'd likely lean towards the one with the better track record (all other things being equal.)

I understand your point of view. 30 years experience with no more than 2 years you can expect they probably would stay with you for about the same length. A 32 year old with the same track record after a big life change like marriage/baby might change but so might the 55 year old (they might want to settle down as well).

I've gotten feedback you stayed too long and you didn't stay long enough from different employers during the same job cycle. Every employer expects different things.

Curious what do you consider an acceptance length at 55? 3 years, 5 years, 10 years+ vs a 32 year old?

It's not a number - each person's history is unique so its a lot more nuanced than that.

When hiring we're looking for someone who'll fit, someone who will add to the whole. Hiring people is expensive, each new person is a lot of time invested. We want to feel like you'll want to stay for a while.

Getting that feeling is hard, and of course there are no guarantees in life, but we don't treat people as fungible. You are you, and we can't just go down to the supermarket and replace you.

History is no predictor of the future, but it can be a signal.

Are there any open positions?

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