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Comment by flanked-evergl | Hacker News Reader

> The ECHR has repeatedly declined invitations to find such a right in the EU Declaration of Human Rights.

Why can't the EU Declaration of Human Rights not just be amended to include it?

Why would it, though? It already guarantees body autonomy. So does my country's constitution.

No need to be more specific - actually that might be for the worse - states/lawmakers could start arguing it has to be explicit about every possible procedure like in the abortion case.

Some people who are against abortion do not consider a fetus as part of the mother's body.

As George Clooney so brilliantly pointed out in Three Kings: Necessity and Priorities. The EU has a lot stuff on their plate, from Ukraine to Gaza. One thing at a time.

And yes, it seems that for the time being, abortion is not really ubder threat in the EU at the moment, so they can focus on other things. I applaud France for doing this, and hope the EU, and more member nations, do follow suite in the future.

Well then they should understand that a mother might choose - or be forced - to stop supporting the fetus with her body. It's not like they're cutting the fetus open, they're cutting the mother open (or giving her drugs).

They might say - it killed the fetus. Yes. Sometimes people disconnect the life support.

That is surely something you can take up in discussion with people who are anti-abortion, but back to my original question: Why can't the EU Declaration of Human Rights not just be amended to include a right to abortion?

As I said, to prevent states, courts and lawmakers from claiming that all other body autonomy rights have to be explicitly listed. It's general language for a reason. The declaration is good as it is, IMHO your suggestion would lead to weakening it.

Some people who are against abortion do not consider a fetus as part of the mother's body, so this is not unambiguously an issue of bodily autonomy. Should the declaration not at least be amended to state that a fetus is part of a mother's body then?

I don't think it's necessary. Abortion is disconnecting the fetus from the mother - that's definitely related to the bodily autonomy of the mother, regardless of whether the fetus itself is considered part of it or not.

I myself am not sure if I consider the fetus a part of the mother or not. There definitely is a point when it is no longer a part of the mother and I don't think it's only at birth. But regardless of the exact transition point, the mother has the right to decide what is connected to her body.

What about the body autonomy to put what drugs I want in my own body?

Sure... In what EU country is it criminal to have drugs in your blood? I don't know about any. Somewhere you might get a fine if you're caught holding some, but it's not criminal anywhere I know of. The trend around here is full decriminalization of use and small holdings for personal usage.

You certainly could amend the EU Declaration of Human Rights to protect abortion. My point is that, in Europe, courts have deferred to the democratic process on “rights.” The EU Declaration of Human Rights even contains an explicit provision, Article 8, addressing the “right to respect for private and family life.” The EHCR could have read that to imply a right to abortion. But they knew that’s not what that provision meant.

The EHCR did the same thing with same-sex marriage. It declined to read Article 12, which guarantees a right to marriage, to confer a right to same-sex marriages.

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