A web-based Excel/database hybrid

It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%.

Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance.

So sit down with some real users and watch them try to use it. Your front page claims install>customize>import. It doesn't work like that at all. It was confusing. For example the upload excel img looks like it's a button. It's not. When I did manage to create an app I first tried editing the cells directly, but they're not cells like excel. Eventually I realized I had to add a textbox, which was also confusing as the width kept changing and I couldn't stop it. At about this point I gave up. Then got hit with multiple alerts when I tried to close the pages.

Then tried to save it.

The most confusing save mechanism I've ever come across.

Tried to just close the page again. Multiple warnings again.

Argh.

And calm. I'm in the process of stopping smoking so my temper is a little, hmm, Hulkish.

I decided to try again while writing this using the import excel function. It didn't work from the front page at all as you had to already have a project (why?). When I tried to do it via the upload the open file dialog never opened. I gave up again.

Also find someone who knows something about sales and marketing. There's not even a CTA button on the homepage to signup. The copy is terrible. You've made the mistake of going typical corporate million page website which doesn't actually tell me anything at all. The order of the home page is all wrong (you should not be leading with the app concept which doesn't actually seem to be in the product). You're making the mistake of selling features, not benefits.

I'd personally spend a little more time so the sales website didn't look like bootstrap (the irony being you don't even seem to be using bootstrap).

As I said, good, but no cigar yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv

I've been waiting ages for this. Desktop, web-based, tablets, however.

Old timers may recall that Lotus Symphony had both database and spreadsheet features, like a multi-app. It was cool. At the time, Lotus Improv seemed like a healthy fusion, next logical step, minimum viable product.

Improv was victim of the Innovators Dilemma plus installed base inertia. I remain impressed that even with their market dominance, Lotus was experimenting, releasing crazy new products, and willing to eat their own children. (Though I can't forgive Lotus Notes, sorry.)

PG's original blurb (http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html):

"22. A web-based Excel/database hybrid. People often use Excel as a lightweight database. I suspect there's an opportunity to create the program such users wish existed, and that there are new things you could do if it were web-based. Like make it easier to get data into it, through forms or scraping.

Don't make it feel like a database. That frightens people. The question to ask is: how much can I let people do without defining structure? You want the database equivalent of a language that makes its easy to keep data in linked lists. (Which means you probably want to write it in one.)"

I read your "how this is different than a spreadsheet" blog, and none of the examples struck me as compelling, even though I use my Excel/SQL toolchain every day. Given how strong the ecosystems are around those tools, I think it would be very challenging to convert power users without some really obvious hook.

That one hook COULD be a good mobile client. For example, I have a dashboard built in Excel with an ODBC connection to a few of my company's DBs. However, I obviously can't see this on my phone, since no mobile Excel client supports ODBC (not to mention the macros I have built in).

I could maybe see a "disruption" angle, where you provide 75% of the functionality of Excel+ODBC+SQL+Workbench in one easier to use package, but I wonder how large the market is for people who want to work with that level of data but don't want power tools. I guess that's one area where you'd have to trust your market research/gut.

1. The programmers, utilizing an Excel+SQL setup for users in an IT setting.

2. The business users who use Excel for more than they should be, or use it in a place a DB would be far more efficient.

Like another poster said, the former probably aren't going to find anything above and beyond what they can't already accomplish with a DB and Excel.

The latter, on the other hand, are a huge market and need help. This is the market who hammer spreadsheets, but are completely in the dark when it comes to databases, and to whom, I believe, PG was referring. As one of those users (okay, I know a bit more about DBs than the "average" business person), this looks complicated. I can't determine precisely what it does, and there seems to be a lot of programmer speak. Apps? APIs? "Development" required? It looks hard. In other words, I want an Excel/DB setup, in theory, but don't really know if this is what I think it is.

That said, as a data dabbler, this is intriguing. I'll be following progress.

The pricing and usage limitations on forms for "personal" (one user / 10 forms / $19.95/month) and "lite" (20 users, 10 Forms, $99.99/month) indicate that you don't understand that full collaboration for both large and small entities is where you will find and grow your market of users, and that small groups are not going to be thrilled with crippled functionality.

I suggest charging only on a per-user basis and not cripple the application with limited forms. Make it easy for even small users to want to rely on the full application for all of their activity. They will tell everybody about your useful application, and won't advertise its silly crippled limitation. Let both small organizations and individuals grow into comprehensive and full usage without a big hurdle ($200 a month) for complete functionality.

In any case, the concept sounds good and is otherwise well presented.

I want to reiterate what has already been said; this does not feel like Excel. If you spend some time watching (medium-to-low skill) people who use Excel as a general purpose tool to perform general tracking and calculation tasks, you'll see there's a very different way they work.

They start with a blank sheet, and start putting data in rows. Then they add some formulas to the rows, and do a bunch of sums on some columns. The idiom you've chosen, of dragging and dropping, is a significant workflow change.

A few more things that I haven't seen pointed out already.

Your pricing scheme should differentiate between designer and non-designer users. If I buy a personal account, it's kinda useless when I can't give my url to someone and tell them to create a new entry and edit data.

Also regarding users, the lack of OpenID integration seems an obvious lack. Creating an account just to enter some data is a pretty high bar. Ideally, I should be able to share a form via email, implicitly granting data entry permissions to the recipient, then they can click the link in the email and be prompted to use their email provider's OpenID to authenticate.

Anyway, you've got some good ideas here, but I don't think you've got the right focus on Excel/Access users quite yet. It lacks the feel of Excel, and lacks the features of Access.

FWIW I think this is an interesting approach. We're trying to approach one specific use case in our own product (I'm in agreement that smaller companies need an alternate solution to larger CRM tools). Good luck!

The logo is not showing up for me, or for that matter, neither are any of the images on your Features or Pricing pages.

On your home page, what is your primary call to action? Do you want people to watch the video? Could you have people try something out? How about making the applications clickable to show more details or have people play with the applications? Have your video proofread for grammar. Good luck!

Maybe I'm just a cheapskate...

Things should work normally now.