MacPad: I created the hybrid Mac-iPad laptop and tablet that Apple won't make
macstories.net
macstories.net
You end up with buttons that are way to large to allow for finger taps that make no sense with a mouse, so a lot of wasted space.
Forcing stupid gestures and UI animations that make zero sense with a keyboard and mouse.
And of course, the fact that you have legacy applications that will never be updated to fully support it (and likely even new ones) and the experience will never be great.
A single device that is meant to be fully usable with a k/m and touch screen is always going to be a compromise for one (or both) setups. At least iPad OS while you can attach a k/m (with decent results if really not how it was designed to be used) the OS is clearly touch first.
I doubt we are ever going to truly see an OS that can handle both with the respect that each input method deserves. The only way I really see that possible is if the OS forces every application to use built in libraries for navigation, buttons, etc (and I mean force!, like it would not run if you don't use it) and the OS then shifts between the 2. But even then you could not naturally switch between, oh I am typing but let me just press this button on the screen because the OS would be on a specific mode.
Its easy to say that Apple just wants to sell us another device, but let's not forget that Microsoft tried and failed... horribly... And we still see the problems with this idea in Windows 11.
I think the idea would be better implemented by a second screen on a swiveling laptop lid. This allows the user to signal to the OS to toggle touch specializations by way of closing or swiveling the lid and lets the main display remain a great no-compromises traditional laptop display.
A mouse is fast, precise, and most importantly, does not block the screen with itself while in use. Your hand is none of those things, and unless you use the screen in the exact same orientation in the exact same place day after day, you'll find it markedly harder to develop muscle memory with regard to it. And, if your software updates, all that could go out the window anyway. A mouse feels like a mouse, barring some hardware change. Once you have your settings dialed in, you know on an instinctual, unconscious level how far it takes to get from here to there.
Add to it, even the most basic mouse has two discreet actions- left and right click- out of the box. The shittiest mouse you can find has those two buttons, and these days, probably a third too with the mouse wheel click. A touch is a touch, unless it's a long-press (but don't move your hand by mistake, or it's now a drag) or if you touch with two or more fingers (but that might also mean you want to touch two things? And if you add any lateral movement at all the software will struggle even more.)
And all of that happens with zero feedback to the user. Touch screens have a much harder time implementing haptics, and you could use sound but not everyone is going to be comfortable with that.
Don't get me wrong, I love my phones and my tablets. But I have no desire at all for touch features on any of my computers, Mac or Windows or Linux. It's just not a good interface for when I need to Get Shit Done.
AOSP has a feature which shows every tap the system registers as a fading circle. It's part of the dev-mode options but it really should be included in the display- or accessibility- features, it makes the system a whole lot more usable than the default of showing no feedback whatsoever. Knowing instantly where the tap has registered makes for a huge increase in accuracy and overall confidence with the UI.
Besides, the best implementation of advanced "discreet actions" on touchscreens probably involves gestures (like the secret unlock pattern on AOSP) or radial/pie menus.
Basically an iPad that is not just a big iPhone but a capable computer in iPad form factor, not necessarily one that uses MacOS even.
I would even accept having to hook up KB/mouse for input. But carrying around a MacBook AND an iPad is a lot of weight.
Well, there's the technical reason which is that the userland of MacOS and iPadOS aren't the same.
But there's also the ideological reason which is that the iPad is strictly sold as a device for consumption, not creation. They don't want you to run any code on it that they haven't authorized.
The iPad Pro is heavily marketed as a device to create things.
Oh wow, I wrote that before even reading the article.
I think this project is cool but it looks like a lot of annoyances compared to just having a macbook plus ipad, and doesn't really seem more portable than a normal macbook plus ipad.
For me it was about having a mix of interaction methods. Sometimes would use touch, sometimes mouse or trackpad, and sometimes keyboard. It was all very situational. Actions like scrolling, dragging, and tapping buttons lend themselves to touch. Fiddling with forms or small UI elements may need a pointing device. Editing text works best with a keyboard. It's about options.
In addition, I felt that being able to switch methods meant less RSI as I wan't using the same movements as much. I was never bothered that some UI elements were too small for touch because I was always ready to switch to a pointer when it was called for.
I do the same now on an iPad Pro that almost all the time sits in a keyboard case next to a mouse. I am constantly switching between those and sometimes picking up the pencil, too.
it might not be for everyone but I would like the option to do that on Mac OS as well.
But yeah, an entirely touch-first laptop experience would be terrible. At the same time a no-touch laptop experience seems to be suboptimal these days. Philosophical design extremes usually aren't the best.
Would be great if we all had options, but perhaps not economical.
So yeah, I agree that I wouldn't want a Windows or macOS device that uses touch for the primary UI, I just want touch-enabled apps that make good use of a pen, on a device that has a proper keyboard/trackpad for everything else.
Arguably, the Wacom Cintiq already solved that issue completely. I did think that the Surface Studio were the most interesting Surface products, though the price wasn't attractive.
I carry an M1 MacBook Air, and a iPad Air 5th-gen. They both have identical fanless M1 Apple ARM silicon, both have identical ram (8GB) and identical storage (256gb), it's practically the same device. I even also carry the iPad Magic Keyboard. I have to carry two sets of everything, just because Apple artificially prevents any of their own software from working on any of their own hardware.
It makes perfect sense to me that, when in tablet/touchscreen interaction, I get a traditional iPad experience.
It makes zero sense, that when I attach the $300 traditional keyboard/trackpad to that iPad Air, I get thrown into a weird iPad-kinda-pretending-to-be-a-laptop-but-failing mode, where you "kinda" have a mouse cursor, and "kinda" have windows (but only 2 or 3!) and you can "kinda" resize them, and you can "kinda" have an external display (but despite being huge, you still can't have more than 3 windows!).
macOS already works great, "iPad Stage Manager" feels like a bunch of people trying desperately to justify breaking macOS conventions and UI/UX, mostly for no good reason.
There's no reason I couldn't be put into normal macOS, and even have my existing iPad apps still running (the software portion of this already works on macOS today, iPad apps run on macOS right now! You just cant experience this on any of the devices that have touchscreens -- you can't do this on the devices that would most benefit from it.)
Historically, that was basically coping with the fact that mobile devices would ship with low amounts of RAM and crappy, bottom-of-the-barrel eMMC storage, so they couldn't really have swap space. One would think that the latter factor is a lot less important nowadays, since storage size and quality has improved with things like UFS.
My thought was when a keyboard/mouse were connected it would be in macOS mode, with a normal desktop, windows, and the dock. Without these input devices, it would switch to touch mode, forcing all the apps to full screen (or now Stage Manager as an option) and forcing LaunchPad in place is the normal desktop/dock. Developers would be instructed to use larger touch-friendly UI elements for full screen mode, which would be used in the touch mode.
It seemed like Apple was laying a lot of ground work, and it made so much sense to me that they’d do this. This was many, many years ago. I’ve since given up thinking they’ll do this.
I thought the same thing about the iPhone, even before the iPad. Once it got fast enough, allow it to plugin to a dock and use a normal desktop with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Some Android devices have since come out that do this, but I think Apple is in a much better position to make something happen.
AKA Windows 8.
That's how you got the worst of both worlds. First thermal issues. Then a whole slew of conditional statements. And one of the things I like about desktop apps is having multiple windows because you don't have to make everything big for touch interaction.
I rarely, if ever, use full screen apps in macOS, so in the model I described, I wouldn't notice any changes (in theory). Similarly, someone who only used a touch device shouldn't see any major differences vs normal iPadOS. Though I'm sure when fulling vetting this out and looking into all the edge cases, there would likely be a lot of little issues that would need to be solved or lead to compromises.
Windows 8 went overboard and tried to force the touch idea, even when it didn't make sense... like removing the start button from Windows Server and relying on hot corners, which was hell with RDP.
I think Apple is blinded with money and is being way too complacent, ignoring that they are in fact losing customers to more modern 2/3-in-1 devices, especially in the young/students demographics, just like they lost customers because of their lack of interest in PC gaming. And since they make it extremely hard to integrate their stuff with other products, people won't renew their Apple hardware overtime, since it's an easy decision considering for how much they sell their stuff.
And I think they are way too proud to admit that Microsoft was actually right with their Surface, for most people it is actually a much better device since a tablet isn't that useful in the end. If all you want is entertainment, a cheap Android tablet with a decent screen is all you need. The iPad Pros as they exist, are way too overpriced for their real capabilities and at this point are terrible value.
If Intel or AMD successfully make a competent power efficient chip in the near future, they will be only Apps left as an "advantage". Considering many of the powerful iPad apps are stripped down versions of the fully featured versions available on "legacy" computing platforms, that's not saying much.
competent power efficient chip in the near future
Many users would be okay with dual booting if they can safe on money and weight
If people wanted what you described, then Surfaces would be skyrocketing. However it looks like according to MSFT that Surface sales are sinking, which might explain why the previous head has left Microsoft:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-microsoft-recover-from-the...
I preferred the Surface Book from a device ergonomics perspective -- but I finally got sick of trying to do dev work on Windows.
So I paid 2x as much for the same functionality instead. And that's why Apple won't make that form factor.
But isn't Apple in somewhat of a unique position given that they're the only company that develops a popular tablet OS and a popular desktop OS? Microsoft has Windows Subsystem for Android, but it looks like it only runs apps from the Amazon Appstore [1].
If there was an Apple device similar to the discontinued Surface Book that ran iPadOS and MacOS, I would be intrigued. Using an iPad as a display for a Mac is cool, but it would be nice to run MacOS locally.
Unlike Windows Subsystem for Linux which is thriving, Google's stranglehold on Android via its Play Store renders any attempt to integrate Windows and Android non-viable.
Until then, it's hard to define the right thing for such a device to do when it's logged in to a second account on macOS and you un-dock it.
You'd also take a pretty big hit in disk use for such a dual-OS device, until they do a ton more work to unify a lot of their software (I'm thinking not just of the OS, but their office suite and other programs).
iOS/iPadOS is the future. Ever iteration macOS becomes more iOS like.
The compute model is changing. I am now old and enjoy doing computers the "old way." I watch younger people wizzing through apps on an iPad and they are able to do 85% of what I can do on a desktop—and if I'm being honest they can often arrive at the same output faster.
There are tons of exceptions, of course. No terminal, limited filesystem access, no Xcode, applications like Photoshop and Final Cut run with a limited feature set, etc.. The list is actually quite long. But every year the list gets shorter.
Somewhere in a room at the Apple spaceship is a chart that has all three OSes converging under a single OS, probably aptly called OS. I'm sure they keep pushing the date off into the future, but it will happen. The numbers are really getting up there too—macOS 14, iOS 17, etc.. If I had to guess, there will be no iOS 20. We will get AppleOS v1.0 instead.
And of other people's nightmares. A macbook and an ipad frankensteined together into an actual laptop?
Sorry, it's a good hack and all, but definitely not for me.
An ipad that's actually internally a macbook, running the full unix-like system, to which you can attach a keyboard of your choice, is more likely what people have in mind as the solution here. use it like an ipad when you just want to read, then stick it on the keyboard dock to do work. Actually let's make it an ipad that's actually a thinkpad or framework; something less coercive than apple or microsoft.
• iPad Pro M3 + OLED display
• Aluminum Magic Keyboard
• vMacOSI used a Comodore 64 plugged into a black and white TV as a kid. This would be the same kind of thing. Sure, an iPad could be the monitor, but so could your TV, or an actual monitor. A computer with storage and input device as a single unit, but without a monitor.
That is quite different from an iPad with detachable keyboard, or even a Microsoft Surface Book (which had auxiliary computing in the keyboard / base, but the CPU and storage was with the display.
I like it. Seems like a great idea to me.
It was a different time back when the 12” MacBook was tested against the iPad+keyboard.
Apple like other manufacturers wants you to own more devices, not less of theirs, which is why they probably won’t do this.
Works good enough...
In any case, these "iPad as Screen hacks" still do not address the main issue at hand: Hardware-wise, you simply don't need the (Macbook Air) laptop, at all.
The laptop form is technically obsolete for most users, since Apple Silicone chips are very similar in Air and iPad. The iPad offers more than enough processing power, while having additional capabilities. Breaking this stupid redundancy and better ergonomics are the things Apple won't make for the sake of completely artificial market segmentation. Probably to keep up supply to the golden iOS Appstore prison and consequent double spending on not just hardware, but software, too.
Honestly, every time Apple tries to green-wash their business, you shall remember how they keep the demand for a whole device line up artificially - and its unnecessary production impact on the planet. Dear Apple, who cares about your headquarter's solar panels, or aluminium recycling rate, when you could simply give people a unix shell on the iPad, with a much, much better environmental impact? Yeah...
Side note: Fool me once... the iPad-paperweight experience is the sole reason I would never, never ever even consider getting into their AR/VR ecosystem. Specs my ass, shell or GTFO. Stallman really do be right.
Here's my loadout: iPad Air 5 (big box sale), Pencil 2 (post xmas open-box sale, you bet), Zagg Rugged Book (eBay). M2 MBP (refurbished), 2020 MacBook Air Intel (big box open box with dents in it, runs Windows 10 on the metal). I also have an iPhone.
The iPad is for daily driving human citizen stuff: bank stuff, buying stuff, selling stuff, talking to people, paying bills, reading the news. I'm typing on it now. It is so easy taking screen shots of bills, using the pencil to mark them up, and then showing these insights to people via email. If you hacked into it, you could take over my life! iPadOS is generally considered secure, so I generally consider this device a luxury.
The MBP is for development and if you hacked into it, you could just see what I'm working on. I guess you could make a mess of my GitHub, oh no. Nothing personal on there though. You could probably guess the root password, but it's still iCloud locked. This thing is the money maker and is not a luxury.
What about my third windows laptop I lug around? You are correct, they make you need to have various hardwares to run all their different softwares. Again it's a luxury: I have it for the "need" to use "real" office.
I also have a fourth: a Chromebook with several paid Android apps on it, other Google Play movies I bought, and I do not own any other Android devices. This thing sits on the shelf most of the time, but I felt the need to have it so I could use the Google software. Maybe if I felt the need to install Linux on bare metal, it would go on this thing, it has an i5. Luxury.
There's probably a way to compress all my software activities down into the singleton MBP, without losing much security. But, I've already been burned by having all aspects of my daily life in one place. This is how I could live without luxury.
If we want to bark up the "they're screwing us over" tree, then, it's nonsense that we need to buy all these different hardwares to run all these different softwares: because that is the REAL LUXURY. If we care about minimizing the number of devices I'll buy per (5) year(s), then we need to "make them" allow us to run any software on any hardware.
TL;DR: I like my iPad, but if we lived in the EU, then they'd sue Apple to let me run Windows on it. Otherwise I'm forced to live a luxurious lifestyle of many devices.
Well, sort of. Under normal operation it requires a (fast) system reset to switch between desktop and "handheld" modes. However, you can open Big Picture (the handheld mode) from desktop mode, it's just not as gaming-focused when you do it this way.
Anyway, I would install SteamOS on a tablet form-factor in a heartbeat if I was looking for this experience.
A Linux tablet with hardware that doesn’t suck would be pretty interesting, especially if the manufacturer integrated Waydroid as well as WINE/Proton is on SteamOS.
It's not really what I was expecting. The appeal seems to be if you hate having an attached monitor for some reason. You can do the same thing without removing the monitor, and then you have two monitors.
I think it is crazy to decapitate a 2-3k+ laptop to make it an accessory for a 3.5k VR headset.
Isn't this effectively what the 11" MBA or 12" MB was?
Whereas today, there is no macOS device with a built-in screen smaller than 13".
They got the M* chip but all we can do is just checking emails & watching youtube
You can side load it using a developer account without jailbreaking.
Seems like with iOS 14+, and as of writing it seems like we're on iOS 17, it needs to be jailbroken? Do Jitterbug, Jitstreamer, AltJIT, work for developer accounts?
Adobe shipped Photoshop for iPad in 2019: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/ipad.html
GIMP for iPad: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/xgimp-image-editor-paint-tool/...
That has to be one of the dumbest of dumb takes.
A car is a toy. A fridge is a toy. A spaceship is a toy.
(Hint: Those are all controlled by predefined knobs and bits and not ""programmable"" by the user. If your argument is that you can rip open a car and do whatever you want with it, well, nothing's really stopping you from doing the same to an iPad or iPadOS, if you can figure out how to do it.)
Meanwhile everything important in my actual life that involves a computer takes place on my phone (an iPhone, the greatest bogey-man for that crowd, as far as I can tell) or on some purpose-specific device of one sort or another. Zero percent of it happens on a "real" computer—their role in my personal life is entirely toy-like.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJQJ3LL/A/magic-keyboard-...
Most of the space difference seems to come to the smaller space bar. Tab, caps, and shift on left and delete, return, and shift on right. And the brackets, plus, and minus.
Other than that, the actual letters seem identical.