Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon G12 laptop review: First major refresh in three years | Hacker News Reader

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon G12 laptop review: First major refresh in three years

notebookcheck.net

60 pointsneverrroot71 comments

The X1s have been very much hit and miss over the years. I used several iterations and flavours, and can summarise things like so (apologies for not knowing the right numbers for some anymore, I had to return them):

- 2014 X1 Carbon: Amazing screen, so-so keyboard, great battery life. Heavy. Don't remember the fan noise.

- 2015 X1 Carbon: Horrible dim screen (yes, I know you can BTO an upgrade, but we got the defaults), good keyboard, too heavy, horrid battery life that was especially painful as I spent 2015/16 mostly on the road. Fan noise was a frequent nuisance when I was in my home office.

- 2022 X1 Yoga Gen 6 (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/12/03/1600): Amazing display, good keyboard, nice weight, battery life seems OK for Windows but pretty short compared to my MacBook (as usual these days). Had to gimp it to have a quieter fan, and I've had days when my IdeaPad Flex 5 (which runs Fedora) lasts longer, which is just... odd.

As to the Carbon carrying an Intel Ultra... I really like Lenovo, but I bought an IdeaPad Flex 5 with my own money because it used an AMD CPU. Still haven't regretted the multi-core performance, or the iGPU (which was pretty great for that time).

I have the 2022 X1 Yoga Gen 6 as well. I am not impressed by battery life. Watching a 4K movie can easily drain the battery form full charge.

The major issue is over heating. Unless I place some small item underneath it (think a lighter size) to make a 1 inch gab between the surface and the laptop it overheats to the point where it stops functions (e.g. movies starts to freeze up). With a bit a airflow underneath it this problem goes away. The casing can get really hot. Almost to the point where you burn yourself. Almost.

>Watching a 4K movie can easily drain the battery form full charge.

Something is terribly wrong with your 2022 laptop if a ~2h 4K movie can drain the whole battery. You should get the battery RMAd ASAP if it's still in warranty or check whatever energy vampires you might have running or maybe a bad driver setup.

I have a cheap-ass Lenovo Yoga and watching a 4k movie drops the battery only by about 10% per hour, so something is definitely wrong with yours.

ok that is interesting and far away from my experience. Yes, it still under warranty. I will create a ticket with lenovo

I just tested yesterday. Playing blue-ray from disk using VLC. It too 72 minutes for the battery to go from 100 to zero.

> Watching a 4K movie can easily drain the battery form full charge.

Are you streaming or playing a Blu-ray? Either way, can you provide software used for comparison to other platforms? If streaming, are you on WiFi or wired connection?

I download the blue-ray movies to disk and play from there using VLC

That’s helpful to know. I am surprised that the battery life isn’t higher in that case, but I can’t think of anything I would do differently to improve it, to be honest.

That is part of the reason why I gimped it. The details are in my post someplace (linked above), but essentially I throttled it.

I have been using the 2016 X1 Carbon for 8 years now, shame the 2015 was a dud and you missed it by a year.

Only weighs 2.5 pounds, still gets 7+ hours on battery despite its age. The 1080p matte IPS display still looks good and fits the 14'' formfactor without being power hungry.

X1 Carbon Gen 7 (bought in 2019): I mildly dislike the thinner keys compared to Gen 6 (tried a friend's copy). On the plus side, I got the nice middle-ground 2560×1440 LCD screen option, which was discontinued a year or two after I bought the computer, which I think forces people to get either 1920×1080 or 3840×2160.

>Had to gimp it to have a quieter fan

Had to do the same with my IdeaPad Flex 5, which always felt super infuriating.

I ended up so frustrated with it that i've ultimatly caved and bought a macbook. I guess i'll have to stay on desktop machines for x86 until someone finally figures out how to make laptop that runs linux and stays silent under heavy load.

Funny, I have a Flex 5 as well, and never had to do anything to it. Then again that machine only runs Linux...

Frustrating that Lenovo do not offer Linux as a default OS choice. I'd think Lenovo want to get out from under the Windows boot themselves but they seem not to be advancing that possibility.

They don't? Ubuntu works outod the box so, qnd I thought you have / had the option to order some Lenovos with Ubuntu installed?

It's a bit of a mess, as it's not clear what and how they're doing it.

For example, the ThinkPad T14s AMD Gen 4 is officially Ubuntu certified, however:

- they've officially promised to ship Linux as an option, last year, but they didn't fulfill the promise

- if one tries to run the current LTS (Ubuntu 22.04), it hangs, presumably because such version still requires an OEM version

It's interesting how "officially supported" doesn't imply "runs out of the box with a stock OS image".

Ubuntu LTS has point releases that come with additional hardware enablement. Is it still an issue with 22.04.4, or was it issue with the original, now two years old 22.04 release?

When I've tested (December), it was the latest point release. By that time, it was already certified, so the certification must have been performed with an OEM release.

I can't exclude that it's fully supported by the latest dot release, but they should also release it in parallel as preconfigured option, so I'm not optimistic (and regardless, it's messy).

Lenovo have been offering preinstalled Ubuntu and fedora for years. Still so just checked.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bun...

Unfortunately not on any AMD model

The ThinkPad Z13 comes with Fedora---at least in Europe.

On some yoga models the IPU6 webcam doesn't work even on the pre-installed Ubuntu.

X1 Nano Gen 1: Near perfect form factor, super light and thin without compromising on keyboard too much. Great screen and Linux compatibility. Disappointing CPU (Tiger Lake), thermals, and battery life.

I can use it without CPU and battery. This way I can have all the benefits and none of the disappointment.

I wish I could just give mine a low-power Ryzen or ARM brain transplant, which might reduce power usage enough to squeeze more life out of its battery.

> New dedicated fingerprint reader next to the small arrow keys

Someone at Lenovo has an irresistible pull to fuck up with a keyboard layout. Because you know, this chassis is so small there is absolutely no other place where to place that fingerprint reader. At all.

At least now people like me wouldn't lose the clipboard content until they remap the dreaded PrtScr under the right thumb.

W520 running Ubuntu is still my daily driver after 12 years. The build quality of their older models is just insane. I wish Lenovo would bring back their classic hardware.

They’ve switched ctrl and fn?

Welp, if the last bastion of sanity on Windows did this, then I guess there’s truly no way back from Mac. And no, remapping it in BIOS doesn’t cut it.

I'd remap it, just dumb though. Why have a key that you almost never use be within reach and make it so ctrl isn't.

Exactly. The only sane layout and they’ve switched because eVeRyBoDy DoEs.

I can’t believe they’ve budged.

I'm a Vim user so I'm constantly pressing Ctrl, but I press it with the edge of my palm.

Something like Ctrl+R, -T, -Y, etc. one-handed is extremely uncomfortable using a pinky (either rotate your hand to use the thumb or stretch your whole hand) or crossed-under thumb. When palming Ctrl? Any of those combos is just another keypress to me---more natural than capitalizing a letter.

If the corner key were Fn, I could no longer just palm Ctrl, and that does not sit well with me

Hell yes, I'm onboard with this. I've always swapped it the bios to be this way.

Always wait a few years after they drop..and get them from a reputable seller from ebay…anywhere from the $350 range and up I’ve had good experiences with

I like using Macs for personal use…Thinkpads for productivity

I wouldn't spend more than £100 on throwaway laptop. X280 is quite decent, cheap and perfect if you need a resource quickly and you don't want to use your Mac.

I see no point in these new laptops. Not sure what they are trying to solve.

Better than Thinkpad T14, Generation 5 ?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39507171

Depends on what you want. For me the X1 is better because it's lighter, and that's what I care mostly about. But I also have a X1 Nano and an Air m2. The Nano is the smallest and lightest, but its keyboard is too small for my hands. The Air is to heavy and the keyboard is a far cry compared to both X1C and X1N.

The X1C is a sweet spot that got better with G12: lighter and likely not so hot and quieter.

Still, the X1C could get even better with AMD CPUs, but that's likely only wishful thinking.

On that note, the P14s is basically a T14 with slightly beefier options. I wish there was an X1 with AMD, but that is never going to happen.

Yes, better due to LPDDR. It's unlikely that T14 will be meaningfully better on perf, cooling, or battery, although all of those should be possible with a larger form factor.

If anyone at Lenovo reads this thread, test and fix your EC firmware---both earlier and to a higher standard.

The support forums constantly reveal EC-realm issues: suspend broken, lid switch screwy behavior, odd interrupts causing battery drain, holding power 10 seconds does not work during some hangs, keyboard stops working (even in the BIOS tests in some cases), long startup, keyboard beep setting is ignored, changing settings via /proc/whatever does not always persist, and the list goes on.

Every BIOS update has half a dozen EC-related "fixes", so it's clear that problem discovery and reporting is left to the customer. So many Linux desktops run 6.6, 6.7, 6.8 totally fine, which to me suggests a problem involving addition of a battery, low-power states, and the controller tying all that together.

I will never buy another modern ThinkPad. It has cost too much of my productivity figuring out problems that should crop up in internal testing and never, ever reach the customer. I was able to find (and document) ten showstopper bugs in the first week of owning the damn thing!

I couldn’t have had a worse experience with my x1. Thermal throttling over 50 percent of the time. Warranty service came 2x and was not able to resolve. Customer support said the machine was fine. I finally gave up and tossed the machine in a shredder.

Modern chiclet keyboards are such an abomination. Does anybody even make laptops with good keyboards anymore or is that a thing of the past now?

Is there any hard evidence on this either way? Personally I love them, other than the fact they’re not split for ergonomics.

It utterly doesn't matter whether there's evidence: it's a matter of personal preference, and the request was for information, not justification.

Well it does matter, because I would say that chiclet keyboards are good, but clearly that doesn't answer the question because we have different definitions of "good", hence digging deeper on what is actually good.

"what is actually good" for me. for you.

This is the difference between subjective and objective parameters. If you want to say that a particular keyboard masses 1.2Kg and has keys with an activation point of 2.1mm at a force of 45 centinewtons, those are objective statements which can be measured, confirmed, and corrected.

You can even measure the hand geometry of a million people to come up with a figure about key center distances that will be usable for 70 or 80 or maybe 90% of them.

But "chiclets are good" is a subjective statement, a statement of your personal opinion and comfort. It's not measurable, and it cannot be applied to other people. Arguing about subjective statements never convinces anyone.

This originated with a person making a subjective statement: "Modern chiclet keyboards are an abomination". There's nothing to argue about there, unless you want to send them a keyboard to try out that you think will somehow convince them over their experience. The sensible courses are to offer options for non-chiclet keyboards, to commiserate, or to remain quiet in the knowledge that you are well-served by chiclet keyboards.

I use one of the 51nb motherboard upgrades for ThinkPad X201 for this reason. Mine’s an Intel 10th gen which is a few years old but still fine for everything I’ve ever tried to do with it.

I am using X1s since 10 years, different generations. The only one I really disliked was the one with the F1-F12 function keys were no real buttons, more like a touchbar. That was pretty bad as a software developer! I think they introduced it because Apple MacBooks had it as well, thankfully for one generation only.

Once you go Mac M1-M3, then there is no going back.

Why do companies bother releasing Intel laptops? It's legacy tech with some window dressing to make it look modern on paper. But it's all the same hot, poor performance rubbish.

Lenovo should invest in creating their own ARM silicon and switch to Linux.

That webcam bump is horrendous, probably the worst possible feature to take from smartphone design. I always loved how my 2016 is so sleek, sure the lid has stress fractures near the hinge after 8 years, but it hasn't actually broken yet.

Why does the screen need to go 180°+?

It’s kinda neat it can do that, I just can’t think of a good reason to bother. Can any of you? I mean would anyone complain if it “only” went to 150°?

Overall, it’s nice looking. I just found that one detail odd.

as I get older I do this less but there was a period where I enjoyed computing laying back in bed with the laptop fully open (180 degrees) or nearly 180 degrees, propped up on my legs and it always annoyed me if a laptop wouldn't open enough to do this

I do something similar. I primarily use a MacBook these days and I really miss how my ThinkPad could open up to 180 degrees while using it laying down on the couch.

this is a very old feature carried over from IBM-era thinkpads.

the main benefit for me was always accident resilience. something could thwack a bezel and it would just lay flat rather than stressing the hinges.

it's also very handy in at-desk and road-warrior scenarios. since it can basically stand on its thin edge, you can position an adjustable laptop stand to hold the laptop nearly vertical. puts the screen in a much more neck friendly position and frees up more of the desk/table for a full-size keyboard and mouse.

I'll put the counter to you - if you could have a hinge that goes 180 degrees why wouldn't you? There's no advantage to limiting it. With cheap laptops there's always the kind of implied "this hinge is cheap and crap so in 3 years time it's just going to sit at the maximum open point", but the Thinkpads are way more resilient than that.

> Can any of you?

Yes, several. I sometimes use my laptop on my ... lap, and the 150 degree angle is not enough to get my gaze perpendicular to the display. Or I can use it while lying in bed/cough on my back and prop it on my lap with the display towards my knees and 150 degrees doesn't work.

But the most common daily use, I also bought one of those adhesive kick stands/feet from Amazon that lifts the back of your laptop off the table by a few cm, useful for cooling and for ergonomics by bringing the keyboard at an angle and the laptop screen higher up so you can view it while looking more straight ahead rather than hunched down looking towards the table to strain your neck and ruin your posture, and again, if your laptop only opens 150 degrees than you won't view the display perpendicularly but at an angle which sucks. 180 degree hinge means I can prop it up as high as I want and still view the screen at the right angle.

>I mean would anyone complain if it “only” went to 150°?

Yes, I only buy laptops that open >150 degrees which sadly automatically means no Macs. It's sad that Apple and others have conditioned users so much to only restrict themselves and their working positions to places that only accommodate the limited hinges of their displays, that somehow a rudimentary feature like a 180 degree hinge now baffles people and requires an explanation.

It's like learning to walk on one leg your whole life then asking people walking on two legs why they'd want that. Once you get to know this freedom, you can't go back to the old ways.

Like what's their problem? The manufacturers I mean. Why can't they all make their hinges 180 degrees? Are there users out there who would be bothered if their screen could tilt over 150 degrees, or does Apple think tilting the display more than 150 degrees looks ugly and ruins the product's sleek aesthetic in the Apple store? It just feels like a stupid arbitrary restriction and not a technical one.

I use this feature a lot when using my X1 Nano while lounging on my bed. Opening the screen to its near-maximum extent and holding the laptop vertically puts the screen at eye level in that position, making it more comfortable to use for an extended period because it doesn’t keep my neck craned down.

You can put it upright on a piano and put sheet music at eye level. I personally use flowkey + an electrical piano connected through USB. Beats a tablet for me!

I would have never thought of that. Great idea, thanks!

^ Sheet music is the only use case I've ever had for portrait mode on a laptop.

In the 'olden days', when external displays and projectors were scarce, we used this feature for collaboration/presentations in non text-heavy interactions. Four people can sit at a table around it and they can all see the screen when it's flat on the table, albeit one of them would see it upside down.

Now I mostly use it for comfortable position in bed, as many others say.

I had a double-take thinking 1080p for $2700 but it's actually 1800p.

i've standardized my whole company on X1 carbons and X1 nanos. plenty of refurb options and recently lenovo even sold x1 carbon g11 32gb ram for $800! (snagged as many as I could). and lenovo/thinkpad's warranty options are fantastic. we've sent 10+ with re-activated warranties and never had an issue getting them repaired. for context - we have 200+ staff with over 100 laptops deployed.

> recently lenovo even sold x1 carbon g11 32gb ram for $800!

Man, how'd you spot that one? I'd have been all over that.

I've been repeatedly disappointed in the build quality of the X1 series. My last one had cheap USB C sockets which wore out to the extent that it made charging impossible. The one prior to that had severe coil whine. I'm back on Macs despite preferring Linux to macOS.

> Note that the screen is set to 60 Hz by default and so users must manually enable 120 Hz mode through the Advanced display settings.

Huh? This seems a bit odd.

I assume it saves battery. You don't really need a super high refresh rate if you're doing things like staring at static text.

You might not need it but you'll want it.

Personally I can't see a difference between 60Hz and 120Hz in phones, so I usually disable the high refresh rate.

I mean, you never _need_ a super-high refresh rate. But after having a 120hz screen on my work MBP for a couple of years, I definitely _want_ it; it's the main reason I've held off on getting a personal MBA, in the hope that it trickles down.

Macbook Pros have full range VRR (1-120hz) though, which not only reduces power usage compared to 120hz at all times but can bring it below that of 60hz at all times, depending on what you’re doing — for example if you’re just reading or typing or watching 24FPS TV/movies, the total number of frames drawn on a ProMotion capable MacBook is way lower than on its 60hz-locked counterparts doing the same thing.

This costs extra to implement though so you don’t see it too often in Windows laptops except sometimes in gaming laptops.

Ah, right; tbh I thought all high-freq displays supported this these days.

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