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Comment by VHRanger | Hacker News Reader

You replace the glass for the insulation value. You don't need to (and shouldn't!!) replace a wooden frame.

Replacing good wooden windows with vynil/aluminium windows is basically signing up to a subscription to the window company. You can't really restore that vynil crap, and the lifespan has a hard limit at 15 years when the double seal breaks.

I'm just replacing the panes and restoring the wood. On the parts where the wood rotted out, I'm replacing the crappy cheap wood with rot resistant hardwoods.

Modern windows aren't that much better. Window companies have good marketing.

A 200 year old single pane window is R-1. Double pane is R-2, and with argon maybe R-3 or R-4.5

Triple pane is R-3 to R-6 depending, and vacuum sealed glass is R-4 to R-14(!!! But no one buys that).

Changing an old window to a new one is often a stark difference because the old window leaked air. Not because the R-value is much lower. You can fix that with reglazing.

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Not sure where you buy from but good quality plastic windows have definitely more than 15 years durability. Ie ours are 20 and no sign of weakening isolation.

We have cca proper winters (maybe not this year) and thermal+humidity sensors in most rooms so a badly insulating window/door would be noticed quickly.

Can you explain what CCA is?

I live in Ontario, I also have proper winters. It's not so much the plastic windows I bought than the ones previous owners did.

The argon seal eventually fails with enough cold/hot cycles, or wear on the silicon seal, etc.

If you're a diligent homeowner, you probably minimize the temperature cycles and take care of the seals, they might last 25-30 years (especially if it's good quality units).

If I'm buying a new window I want something that I can repair and maintain for a long time. So it's wood frame for me, and specifically a rot resistant wood species if possible (not old growth, unless it's reclaimed)

Do you not realize how long is 15 years? Or how long is 25-30?

The windows in our house, Hudson Valley(NY), are at least 30 years(all mechanical parts are labelled as "pre-1994") - they are not showing much wear... considering that we get -20C to +30C swings every year.

If you're paying $20k every 20 years, that averages out to a $80/month "window subscription" when itemized

That said, my property is really old and has effectively all window types in one place or another. Because it had 15years of lack of maintenance I can see which are repairable, which aren't, and how fast each degraded.

The really old windows aren't much of an issue (as OP said). Reglaze, reseal, performance is decent.

Cheap wooden windows are more of a problem, but repairable and upgradeable.

Cheap plastic windows have not fared well all. The plastic frame isn't in place due to heat/cold/UV exposure and they're a full replacement. They leak tremendous air and let bugs in.

The aluminium windows have fared a lot better.

I guess Swiss quality is simply Swiss quality. If your windows after 15 years leak bugs inside than my friend previous owner bought the cheapest of the cheapest possible from aliexpress of last decade(s), not even ultra cheap eastern European stuff is that bad that quickly.

Overall, some folks love repairing old broken stuff (or need to due to financial circumstances). Most of us, our life satisfaction lies very much elsewhere and to spend our valuable remaining free time to just to learn properly and maintain such stuff that doesn't matter much in long run seems... unwise. Investing into relationships and intense experiences work generally better here.

I see plenty of older folks who maintain their houses and garden around themselves (I mean proper gardens with fruits and veggies etc, not those uniform fugly mandatory US lawns). It takes so much of their energy that they have little time nor energy for some other serious hobbies, travel etc. Eventually in old age they can't keep up and its extremely depressing for them, since their effort is usually lost to their kids and they just get rid of that ol' house.

I don't doubt Swiss made stuff is much tighter and has better detailing than North American builder grade crap.

For the "leaks bugs" part - ladybugs here will find a way in as soon as you have a 1.5-2mm gap. They find them all. It can be between the frame and the siding, the silicone caulk cracking, a mechanical window that doesn't quite close tight, or anything else. It's a nice confirmation that your window has failed and leaks air.

With that said, I mean no offense to your beautiful country, but Swiss weather isn't as rigorous as Canadian weather. In the last week we've had a 36hour period with both +14c and -19c outdoor temperature. Our weather puts a lot of expansion stress on any outdoor facing material.

> Overall, some folks love repairing old broken stuff (or need to due to financial circumstances).

That's true. There's also a philosophical position that I don't like buying new when repairing isn't that hard. I've done it for TV's, computers, windows, etc. It's fun to learn how things work around you as well.

> Investing into relationships and intense experiences work generally better here.

I don't think they exclude each other at all

> I see plenty of older folks who maintain their houses and garden around themselves

For what it's worth, it's one of the better hobbies for retired people. It gets them outside and moving. Being close to nature is good for you as well.

Ideally they'd have hobbies that would keep them close to other people (the best thing for you), but all in all it's much better to be out gardening than on Facebook rotting their brain.

Lots of bullshit in your post. Probably speaks to your youth and lack of long term perspective. I sure hope you get a chance to tend a garden someday, and every day. Plastic windows are absolute garbage, and will rarely hit 20 years without problems in any location with significant temperature swings, or extreme cold or extreme heat. I know, because I have some. I've also had some old old hardwood window frames, and they've been by far the most resilient...but really same goes for all hardwood materials. My best friend growing up, in "ultra cheap eastern Europe", lived in an old (early 1700s) all-wood house. There was 0 maintenance. The wood simply refused to rot.

>Most of us, our life satisfaction lies very much elsewhere and to spend our valuable remaining free time to just to learn properly and maintain such stuff that doesn't matter much in long run seems... unwise.

I think throwing plastic windows into the dump heap to pollute the local waterways and ultimately ground water (and maybe air if your dump incinerates), is vasty more unwise than simply using biodegradable, 100% renewable, and much longer lasting, not to mention beautiful, wood.

> the double seal breaks

That's the seal between the panes of glass that make up the cartridge, has nothing to do with what the frame is made of. Replacing it when the seal fails is pretty trivial.

You're correct. But that's also the point at which people generally realize the plastic has cracked or bent and is leaking air, etc. etc.

I consider leaked air part of the r-value, but you are correct that is the real problem. It isn't just the windows, it is the seal between the window and frame, and the frame itself that are also problems.

If you can fix old windows to be good - then good. I fully agree modern windows are not great, but R-2 is still better than 1.

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