Ask HN: Nobody interested in an open hardware iPod Nano?

> So, why is nobody interested in recreating an iPod nano like device? It should be doable with modern tech, but Phones have completely taken over the market...

My guess is that an iPod Nano can’t replace your iPhone so you’re going to have one anyway. If you already have one, why buy something else that doesn’t offer any extra features? Same goes for things like battery life, I’m already charging my phone every night, listening to audio is a very small additional battery drain so my daily habits don’t change.

Combine that with the fact that a lot of people listen to music via streaming services, the Apple Watch exists (works well for runners that don’t want to carry a phone) and you can start to see why the market for an iPod nano is pretty niche these days.

I don’t mean to discourage you, love the research you’ve done and your passion for the concept! Just know that if you build it out it’s going to be a niche product. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, you may be right... but I always see nostalgia discussions about how it would be to have a distraction free audio player with iPod features and size...

So there would be definetely a market in my opinion :-) And since there are modern Android High Res DAP[1] devices like:

  HiBy M300
  Sony A306
  Astell & Kern
  Shanling M3

I just don't understand why they are ONLY focusing on bulky android stuff. Maybe to support Spotify, Audible and Quboz.

[1]: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hi-res-portable-daps-compari...

Well, I think it's as simple as you say. Phones have completely taken over the market. The majority of people don't find any value in having another device that's only differentiating factor is that it isn't their phone. (You didn't mention headphone jacks).

It's just like portable GPS devices, electronic organizers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeE_kiG5Co), electronic translators/dictionaries, calculators, alarm clocks, ...

> You didn't mention headphone jacks

Oh, I did in a side comment :-) There is nothing like the

> Earphone remote support[2]

with its tap codes to control the playback. See https://github.com/advplyr/audiobookshelf-app/issues/847 for details

Your point is good but I do want to mention that I still use a garmin inReach when I'm going to places that are outside of cell service range. It's basically meant to be used with a phone anyway, but I get some peace of mind from having a specialized device to do things like call for help.

I host a Navidrome music server at home. I can access my personal music collection from anywhere in the world, privately and self-sovereignly and I don't have to decide what music to take with me anymore.

I'm very nostalgic for the iPod days but it's just a bygone era. Us music-lovers and audiophiles have upgraded our game.

I also do, with the substreamer app organizing my music with beets[2]. And it's great, especially with smart playlists[1] concept shamelessly stolen from iTunes (I mean this in a good way).

But for audio books, I did not find an app, that is free, does not crash and supports earphone remote like iPods do (I tested audiobookshelf, smart audiobook player and many many others) :-)

For going to bed or taking a walk I still love my distraction free, remote controllable iPod Nano 7.

1: https://github.com/navidrome/navidrome/issues/1417 2: https://beets.io/

I realised you've already ruled out the full-size ipods as too bulky - but a thought that crosses my mind once in a while, is that given the number of aftermarket parts for 5G/6G iPods - I'm surprised no-one's come up with an aftermarket logic board.

My desired feature set otherwise doesn't differ too much from yours. Flac, BT for headphones, wifi to sync (from something that isn't itunes), support for larger sdcards, and maybe charging over anything but the 30pin. And then that one annoying bug - it'd be nice if 'shuffle all' didn't internally create a playlist that contained every song, creating an artificial limit on how many tracks can be used because that playlist fills the ram.

But what the full-size ipod really benefits from at the moment is aftermarket parts - chassis, shell, screen, touchwheel, batteries, etc. The logic board is really the only supply-constrained part left, and just addressing that one part cuts down the manufacturing dramatically.

Unfortunately the Nano doesn't garner the same aftermarket. Largely because it's dangerous & near-impossible to remove the innards once the battery starts swelling - so the biggest driver to rebuild it comes hand-in-hand with the inability to do so.

Yes, exactly. The device that comes closest to what I would say feature complete is the HiBy M300 for 200$. It has Android 13, modern specs and most important support for OMTP headphone remote control (Sony A306 does not have this). But the M300 is way to clunky for my taste (4" display, pretty big device) and even more important: No android app fits my needs in terms of stability and reaction timings.

However, I found a way to mod one of my iPod Nano 7g (i got plenty) by milling out the aluminium backplate to fit in a 600mah iPod Mini battery. It's too thick, but width and height fit perfectly. With a protecting silicon case I now (kind of) probably own the only iPod nano with replaceable battery (without taking it apart completely). This is also kind of dangerous, because the battery has no real protection except the silicone case and as we all know lithium batteries are the worst when penetrated or bent. I'm working on this but still: 600mah is nearly 3 times the capacity of the original one :-)

There is also recent progress in hacking the iPod Nano 6g / 7g, but I think nobody cares any more... see https://github.com/CUB3D/ipod_sun for details.

There are still people who like the idea of a dedicated mp3 playing device (vs always using their phone for that), but I'm not sure those same people are the ones that care about having an open source version of that device. Old mp3 players are readily available and cheap. That said, start a project and document it well and I'm sure you'll find others that are interested.

People are very interested. I'm not an apple person, but I'd very much like device that is dedicated to music, works well, and the iPod with the wheel has got to be the best UX for an mp3 player I've ever seen.

"Like" is very different from "want to buy". It just so happens, I've got a device in my pocket (well right now, my hands) that does that job adequately enough. And it does video. And it does interpersonal communication. And I can read documents on it.

I remember before smartphones that the market was so saturated with cell phones that companies were basically just throwing out strange form factors to set themselves apart. The entire market was hype. People bought phones based on what their carrier had available, and they picked their carrier based on the plans available, and they picked a plan based on their needs. 10 free ringtones, unlimited email for $30 a month. All the manufacturers knew what people wanted, one device to rule them all, a general purpose computer in their pocket, but none of them could either pull it off or bring themselves to destroy the rest of their consumer electronics business. As soon as apple did it, the demand for everything else evaporated. You buy one device and you no longer need a TomTom, a DVD player in your car headrest, an mp3 player, you name it, its gone. The only things that survived are things that hook up to a big screen in front of your couch, and the screen itself. Gaming computers are a thing, but besides that they're workstations. There's only one personal media device now, and everyone has one.

So yes, there's interest in this stuff. I'm personally pretty interested in a little device that just plays sound through a 3.5mm jack that takes a micro SD card and doesn't need daily charging. I'd also be interested in such a device for books (that runs koreader and absolutely nothing else). No networking, no multipurpose, nothing, just that. But admittedly, what I'd pay for those things is low, because I already have something adequate for those purposes, and it's a niche market, there aren't a lot of people that see the benefit to an eBook reader that at least can't google something real quick over WiFi.

> But admittedly, what I'd pay for those things is low

Thanks for you opinion :-) That may be it... was the same for me for a long time, but I also admit that my mind changed a bit. I already thought about paying a whole lot of money for a device that either exactly fitted my needs or even may pay someone to CUSTOM BUILD it for me (fiveerr, etc.).

The only thing that is blocking my is my absolutely limited amount of time. Although I already put a lot of effort in this topic, I'd bet developing my own device would take all my free time and more - and also huge amounts of money. That is a risk I can't take, even if people would be willing to pay for such a device. Furthermore I'm an open source enthusiast. It's not my style to develop something and try to earn money with it :-)

I understand that a portable audio player is a niche product and everyone I talk to has a bit different requirements and wishes for it. I think the combination of the niche aspect together with the "there is no general purpose product for everyone" aspect will make it impossible. I think I'll stick with my iPod as long as possible and hope for the best, that in a few years Lilygo, raspberry and friends are far enough to put my effort into the software, not the hardware :-)

An open source Ipod Nano is a great idea. It could be useful for many years, much longer than a phone. I’m interested in the idea of making one that is modular too - made from little interconnected open source PCBs that you can get from say Lilygo, Seeed, DFRobot, Adafruit, Sparkfun.

I think open source and modular hardware could be a way to make electronics repairable and user-upgradeable, and also prevent future e-waste. Modularity = repair & reuse. [1] And this means you don’t have to be good at PCB design to get started.

For example I think you can make an MVP Ipod entirely out of existing adafruit modules. And sell the MVP for 2-3x BOM / distribute the design as a production model, not just a prototype.

If you get any traction, you can make a better product by designing better modules, and make them high quality, open source, and documented, so that manufacturers will pick them up and start supplying them to the community. If the modules aren't picked up by a manufacturer (with no money exchanging hands) that means the module isn't general purpose enough and would lead to future e-waste.

1. https://www.hackster.io/buildingpulse/modular-lorawan-end-no...

Because more people are interested in a modded 7th gen ipod classic[0][1]. Give me the wheel any day.

[0]: https://www.wired.com/story/ipod-modders/

[1]: https://player-mods.com/products/bluetooth-modded-ipod-class...

I have 3 of them myself. The only thing that made me drop it in favor of the Nano is the lack of fast-forward / rewind via headphone remote AND the fact, that controlling it via remote always lights up the display. This is a no go when having children sleeping next to you while listening to audio books. You never ever want your children wake up because of something like this ;)

I used an iPod nano 6g for years. I loved the tiny size, the clip, and the fact that it didn't have speakers (no accidental noise in the office).

I use my phone for mp3s and podcasts now, but I'd prefer the iPod if it weren't dead (and I could update it from Linux). I find myself going into shops with my family staying in the car, and it would be nice to take my phone without having to turn off the music for them.

Tangara is crowdfunding right now, and seems to fit the description to some extent.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/cool-tech-zone/tangara

Already linked in [5], see my other comments :-) Not bad, but also not "Nano" ;)

Why recreate device that died because less and less people wanted or needed it? There’s no demand for it in the market. We have “supercomputers” in our pockets or on our wrists, we don’t need another device to carry in our pockets.

In my experience, smartwatches are the replacement for iPods -- they play all the media you may want and are highly portable/convenient.

Maybe... but can you fast forward / rewind via tap on a bluetooth headset? :-)

You may be interested in Tangara. https://www.crowdsupply.com/cool-tech-zone/tangara

> The music player you wish you had in the early 2000s

> 100% open hardware running open-source software

Although, Tangara looks quite a bit bulkier than the Nano.

Tangara is already linked in [5]. To bulky for me.

I also modded an iPod Classic 2009 with iFlash Quad, 512GB storage (it could handle more but the original software can't) and 2000mah battery, which results in >60h playback time.

All great, two minor problems: A bit too bulky and Earphone remote support lacks rewind and fast forward :-/ next / prev / volume do work, but I need the rewind for my audio book collection.

I’m not, but I’d love to see open source components that outperform the alternatives (e.g., ESS).

an ipod nano was only half its hardware

it gave non-technical users a pathway to legally put the audio needed to make that hardware do anything easily (using their credit card)

that's why most newer products have some sort of digital integration

i use a SanDisk Sansa Clip+

Sansa Clip is great - but WAY behind iPods in Terms of usability regarding audio books. Even with rockbox.

I still like the idea of owning one.

iPods are a relic from when a time before everybody carried around a cell phone that could also stream any music they would care to hear. What do I gain from this device that I don't get from using an iPhone?

The benefit for me is that I don't have to use an iPhone to listen to music.

More and more people have begun to feel that carrying around a smartphone, being pervasively connected to the Internet at every moment, is a large net negative in their life. It detracts from immediate experience of one's actual physical environment, greatly but subtly.

So, some still want a device that is "just music," nothing else.

A better, more reliable experience.

Navigating a classic ipod is faster, easier, and more pleasant than a modern touch screen. The sound quality is higher. There's no stress about hitting a cellular dead zone. It still has a headphone jack for when your bluetooth headphones eventually run out of juice.

That's what I thought. Why are Phones (especially Android) so unreliable regarding audio... just frustrating.

Idk about sound quality being higher, audio quality reviews show iPhones having pretty good quality, and they support external DACs.

Searching a large library is not better on an iPod, I have a classic, but that’s subjective.

Cellular dead zone isn’t an issue. Phones have built in storage just like an iPod.

A headphone adapter is much smaller (and cheaper ?) than another device iPad nano or not.

This is cool for its novelty imo, but the benefits are nebulous.

Using yourself as the sole point of reference in a conversation like this is ridiculous. You don't like it? That's fine. But, that's you. You are not a representative of what other people value. The fact that people can sustain a business selling old modified iPods mean that there are quite a few people who agree with me and who disagree with you.

Take a chill pill.

I was just pointing out that some of these arguments aren’t supported by facts.

I didn’t disparage anyone for desiring these or say they’re useless. I said it’s my opinion that they are more of a novelty. There’s nothing wrong with novelty, entire industries are based on it.

> I was just pointing out that some of these arguments aren’t supported by facts.

> I said it’s my opinion

So, which is it? Maybe you should consider there are points of view other than your own before trying to pass off your opinion as objective fact. Which is all I was trying to point out.

Read it again, and see if you can figure out which parts are objective and subjective.

And take another chill pill keyboard tough guy.

Don't do that. Maybe you should read this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html