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Comment by shostack | Hacker News Reader

Vatsim may not be the most accurate in terms of teaching you what to say, but it will get you comfortable saying it live.

I've had some truly amazing experiences, including the night before my first discovery flight at KPAO when KPAO was miraculously towered in vatsim (it almost never is compared to the major airports in the Bay).

I logged in and started flying the pattern with a very friendly controller. Somehow we ended up with a full pattern which I've never seen at a GA field in the sim.

Eventually we all started chatting, and turns out the controller used to fly out of KPAO IRL, and another local pilot was in the pattern. I got a bunch of great tips on sight maps for the pattern there, airport procedures and best practices, etc.

It sounds cheesy but it was one of those magical Internet moments of connection with other people that sticks with you forever.

Nailed everything during my discovery flight the next day.

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It's such a welcoming community. When I first started exploring, I was on a laptop that couldn't run FS so ventured into the ATC side as the software can run on essentially anything. I joined a session that had an active ATC and he ATC on-call kept walking me through everything that was happening during low moments.

During my first flight I added a comment to the flight plan that I was new and the ATC walked me through how to startup the plane when running into some issues with the guide as they had been an instructor on the exact plane in a real world setting.

If you are curious about it, just dig right in and someone will help you along the way.

As a side note, here is a VATSIM map of current flights: https://simaware.ca/

> Vatsim may not be the most accurate in terms of teaching you what to say, but it will get you comfortable saying it live.

What are some of the inaccuracies? I enjoy flight sims, but I'm not sure I want to actually get a license. My understanding was that it tried to use accurate communication, so I'm curious about the differences!

In my (limited) experience, the inaccuracies are just due to amateur pilots/ATC not getting phraseology spot on and being more forgiving than the real world. Obviously, VATSIM doesn't have the users to populate the server with true to life Traffic and ATC at all locations. This lets you make your callouts slower than what you would see in real life.

ATC in real life can be surprisingly forgiving, too, depending on a lot of things (weather, their workload, if there's a lot of local flight training, and so on). There are a lot of things they will of course insist on though, like reading back hold short instructions and assigned runways. If you call up for routine VFR flight following on a not-busy day and accidentally forget some bit of info like your altitude, they'll just ask for it no big deal.

Yeah I think a lot of people forget that students talk on the radio on their first flight. Controllers in real life are used to people talking too casually and not knowing the right phrases. You can also say "student pilot" after saying your first line if you want them to speak slower

Steve Thorne, aka "Flight Chops", had a couple of videos a few years back with an ATC guy on helping pilots not be so intimidated:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg90PF4mWJs

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxb8RTdl6Y

As a bonus video, see also this crawl-thru of a B-29:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XakK81edKFA

> I enjoy flight sims, but I'm not sure I want to actually get a license.

This was me in late 2021 / early 2022.

I urge you to get a discovery flight! I did, and now I'm almost finished with my instrument rating. One of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I love flying so much - more than I ever could have imagined.

Your wallet won't like it though.

If you use reddit I'd recommend lurking r/flying. Great community of pilots ranging from students to hobby pilots to 747 captains.

I'm planning to staff PAO/SQL when I get my tower rating (hopefully) soon as I also fly out of them IRL. Hopefully can get a full pattern going again! Say hi if you see me on

Curious do you remember the tips for the sight maps for the pattern/best practices? They sound cool to share for pilots unfamiliar with the field

Please do! As a fellow KSQL pilot irl, this sounds awesome.

Not OP but I can share...

At KPAO the main thing to know is 1) on departure turn 10 degrees right after clearing runway for noise, and 2) they will often extend the pattern for more space when it gets busy. On the departure/upwind leg, they may extend you to the train bridge or the auto bridge (Dumbarton bridge) before you turn crosswind. On your downwind leg, they may extend you to the amphitheatre, which is the white tent looking thing near Google. This actually runs into KNUQ (Moffet) airspace but the controllers coordinate this so it's fine. And don't extend unless they tell you!

For KSQL, new pilots mostly get tripped upon the departure procedures. You can fly the Hillsdale departure, Oracle departure, Coyote Hills departure, or Woodside departure. KSQL is a short hop from KSFO and under their jet approach, so the procedures are intended to create more predictable incoming/outgoing traffic. Annoyingly, these departures are not charted and instead published as part of the "voluntary noise abatement procedures" by the airport. You can read them here (PDF) https://www.smcgov.org/media/57331

Both are great little GA airports. I learned to fly with West Valley Flying Club and wholeheartedly recommend them. Friendly pilots and a supportive community. If you have questions, just pop into their office and you're likely to find someone you can ask (and get stuck talking about airplanes for an hour :)).

West Valley really is such a wonderful community.

For PAO specifically, also helpful to know where KGO (trio of radio antennas alongside bridges), the Dish / Stanford, Sunken Ship (what it sounds like), the Birdhouse (round structure between Amphitheater and PAO), Amphitheater (as well explained in top comment), 101, and train/auto bridges which often get used as visual landmarks.

For SQL, I can’t really remember too many landmarks that get used often other than Cement Plant (cement plant on the bay slightly past south side of the field) and AT&T (big grey building).

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