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Comment by yashap | Hacker News Reader

> Have you noticed that you're way more into brussels sprouts now than you were when you were a kid? If you're a GenX-er or a Millenial, that's because today's (delicious) sprouts aren't the same plant as the (gross) sprouts of yore.

This is an oft-quoted fact, and it’s true that modern brussels sprouts are less bitter, but that’s far from the whole story. The popular preparation used to be boiling or steaming, and many people still find that gross with modern varieties. But over the past 15-20 years, frying or roasting them, and topping it off with things like bacon, parm, balsamic reduction, etc. became the standard preparation, and this is just a way more delicious way to cook them (for most ppl). I’d assume this makes a massively bigger difference than a reduction in bitterness.

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I don't mind steamed sprouts today, but I remember how utterly repulsed I was by them as a kid. The preparation doesn't make a ton of difference, in my opinion.

tastes can change too

Also possible: your taste preferences changed over time. I know mine have.

Yes - mushrooms and olives on pizza used to be a crime against humanity. I don’t think Papa John’s invested in higher quality toppings.

I'm not so sure. I feel like the quality of fast food ingredients has gone up since the 90s.

I have a couple of theories: I think consumer preferences have pushed in that direction (e.g. I remember McDonalds chicken nuggets used to have chewy gristle in them), and JIT inventories mean that ingredients can be fresher, and food science (e.g. additives and preservatives) has improved, and improved flavor along with it, and there are also new preparation methods which improve quality of the final product.

> used to have chewy gristle in them

Chickens have gained significant breast mass in the last few decades (so much so it causes "woody breast") and, with increased supply, the price of breast meat (less gristle) has come down proportionally. Like the McRib, economics drives McDonald's decisions.

> I feel like the quality of fast food ingredients has gone up since the 90s.

Interesting. My impression has been the exact opposite of that. Ingredients seem more uniform, true, but they also are much less flavorful and seem to be higher in salt than ever.

My wife and I got some brussels sprouts recently that tasted exactly how I remember them as a kid. We both noticed it immediately and my daughter refused to eat them (when she normally loves them).

So while that may be true, it’s absolutely true that they’ve changed.

cut them in quarters, sprinkle dash of salt, stir fried 'til brown over medium-high heat with olive oil, and sprinkle few drops of fish sauce (or oyster sauce depending on pref).

prep it makes a huge difference and it's one of best tasting/healthy vegetable imo.

Overcooking will increase the bitterness, the preparation makes a ton of difference.

I don't really recall how my mom might have cooked broccoli and such, but I certainly identified things she did cooking that were not ideal as far as outcomes (and I would say she was a reasonably good cook).

My mom bought Green Giant broccoli and cauliflower in a gluey pseudo-cheese sauce. It was as disgusting as it sounds.

I didn't like broccoli and cauliflower until I had them raw.

Of course, YMMV :)

Cauliflower is probably the most versatile vegetable there is. Apart from boiling, there's no bad way to treat it. Even boiling works in soup!

Other than slow cooking, unless you want to smell sulphur farts for six hours.

And I even like it boiled and then stirred with butter, salt, and pepper. But nothing beats eating it roasted...

Completely agree about the prep. It's not a modern phenomenon either. Even 1960s mainstream influencers like Julia Child were showing people how to peel and incise the stems, pan fry with butter, salt and olive oil oven roast, serve with various sauces, etc.

What changed is the marketing around home cooking. Now everyone aspires to be their own private chef. It's understandable for people living in the mid-20th century western world to see all this as a bit pretentious.

The goal back then was just to get a decent healthy meal on the table. Any flourishes such as adding bacon, duck fat, or whatever else were likely seen as unhealthy, inaccessible, or just plain weird.

Similarly to overcooking, acids may break down bitters. There's useful science in why things like balsamic reductions and citrus fruit juices are commonly used in brussel sprout recipes today.

The spread of such information/science in recipes has increased from the slower era of cookbooks and newspaper columns.

When I was a kid, brussels sprouts were prepared by boiling them in water for an hour, and serve with absolutely no seasonings.

I can go down the street to a restaurant called Left Bank and they have the most amazing brussels sprouts. I think they cook them in bacon grease. The outside is crispy and it has something like caramelized sugar on it. They are absolutely freaking delicious.

Not everyone tastes them the same. There is a gene that makes you taste more or less the bitterness of PTC (phenylthiocarbamide)

https://www.centreofthecell.org/blog/science-questions/why-d...

Sure, but the percentage of people with that gene hasn't changed, yet it is an oft-cited anecdote (I don't know if there's data) that more people like them now than they did forty years ago.

This is often said to be because of the new breed that is less better, but I also agree with GP that better cooking methods have something to do with it. I love brussels sprouts, but my stomach flips at the thought of boiled sprouts.

People’s taste also change (sometimes dramatically) as they age, aside from any differences in farming or prep, though I don’t doubt what you’re saying.

The preparation concept is huge. Growing up way back in the day, industrial canned spinach was absolutely disgusting and pushed on all forms of school cafeterias. They even tried to influence its liking with a cartoon character. Many many years later, fresh spinach was made available and I find it delicious. How anyone thought that mushy slop from a can was ever considered edible is beyond me.

well... us food education is certainly not rooted in facts :-( the food pyramid days align mentally when i had similar experience with spinach

>They even tried to influence its liking with a cartoon character.

Popeye?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popeye

It's still a brand carried in many US stores too.

https://www.popeyespinach.com/about-us

Spinach tastes great when made right.

Even frozen spinach is extremely unpalatable. Fresh spinach is great, saute of fresh spinach is also great.

> The popular preparation used to be boiling or steaming, and many people still find that gross with modern varieties.

What is wrong with people? They're delicious, and an absolute must along side a reindeer roast with a creamed mushroom sauce, or similar. Steamed of course.

Though I did learn the hard way as a kid that they can be rather harsh on the stomach when raw...

with those methods, if you overcook it is pretty much game over. roasting tends to be more forgiving

I can agree with the first part. Here in Seattle, commonly known as South Alaska, I always order the McReindeer burger at McDonald’s when it’s in season (they alternate with the NcRib).

This might have been marginally funny if I spelled McRib properly

What's "wrong with people" is they don't like eating poison. You can train yourself to like anything, but the bitter alkaloids that give brussel sprouts and such their nasty bitter taste are indeed a toxin. There isn't enough to be dangerous in modern varieties, but there was in their wild ancestors.

There's a saying, The bitter the better

Many bitter foods are highly nutritious.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/bitter-foods

Bitterness is quite literally the "this is poison, stop eating" taste category that incidentally happens to have a lot of false positives because for the most part it's cheaper to reject some good food than to accept eating some poison. An ironic thing to say in a thread about peppers, but still.

And much much more false negatives, which raises the question if the "stop eating this, this is bitter and bitter means poisonous" has any truth in it.

If bitter = poisonous, then the plants that evolve to be more bitter will be eaten less. Thus, non-poisonous foods that evolve to be more bitter have a genetic advantage over their less bitter counterparts.

That would be true if there were a fitness advantage for the plant when a herbivore dies, but in actually the fitness advantage comes from discouraging the herbivore from eating the plant.

They are much less bitter if the plants had been exposed to frost before harvesting. My parents used to have them in the garden. Brussels sprouts in winter were nice.

Never had to train myself, always just liked them, and they don't taste particularly bitter.

So I had a hunch it was like cilantro, and seems there's indeed a genetic reason[1].

So fair enough, if they taste bitter I'll accept it's not a nice side dish.

[1]: https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/12/04/brusselssprouts/

They are bitter, and not in a tasty way, but in an overpowering gross way

Mushroom sauce?? What's wrong with you?! ;-)

Hehe.

I should have specified it's wild mushrooms, we have a lot of funnel chanterelle[1] (do not confuse it with deadly webcap[2] which can grow alongside) and regular chanterelle by our cabin, so usually that's what we use.

Makes for a quite delicious sauce.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craterellus_tubaeformis

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortinarius_rubellus

>What is wrong with people?

De gustibus ...

What do you plebs even eat with your reindeer roast?

I don't know that I buy this; I eat sprouts raw (slivered with a food processor) about as often as I roast them. They're noticeably sweet as a salad base.

It's actually the over-cooking them, specifically over-boiling them, that makes the more bitter.

I think very few people would find them bitter raw, even self-professed sprout haters.

I'm prepared to believe you! But I roast the bejeezus out of them when I cook them, and they're great.

That's how they always prepared them down south. I promise the old ones were disgusting even blackened and dripping with bacon grease

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