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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

> Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance.

We live in a society. The government takes 40-50% of your income every year so you can support the other people who are part of the same society. It allows you to survive and protects you from those that would harm you both internal and external. Saying a short affirmation of loyalty to that entity once in a while seems pretty mild in comparison.

Relevant: https://youtu.be/hopNAI8Pefg?si=6e0CPUfD15Mf30ol

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> Saying a short affirmation of loyalty to that entity once in a while seems pretty mild in comparison.

Faux performative patriotism. You took the oath to support and defend the Constitution when you were admitted to the bar. That ought to be enough.

I say a prayer every time I enter a bar. Probably not the same prayer though

None of us asked for this. Sure you can argue that we’re lucky. That would be like chiding a clinically depressed person for “feeling down” because other people in other countries have it worse off.

Performative chants serve as a form of mass hypnosis - to solidify the legitimacy of a batshit insane society in the weak minds who just want to go along to get along.

Our society is fucked. And those of us fortunate enough to be in the creative class can wax philosophical about it in our luxury boxes while everyone else gets fucked.

> Faux performative patriotism

Shared rituals reinforce shared values.

Evidently not. Among all Americans, I have the least in common with those who are most passionate about these rituals.

Maybe in England, but we fought a whole revolution not to say dumb shit like this unless and until the spirit moves us. It's why we're better.

Are they just not teaching civics anymore? Even the nuns at St. Barnabas were clear on this point with us. If this is reverse psychology trying to get me to put my hand on my heart and pledge the flag, well played.

I thought we fought a war because we didn’t want to free our slaves?

That's not what I was taught. Is it what you were taught?

For the civil war, yes. But that doesn't seem like the most relevant war to the national anthem or pledge of allegiance.

We went to school in the before times. Lots of people believe various versions of that view now: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/2/8884885/american-revolution-mis...; https://nyupress.org/9781479893409/the-counter-revolution-of...; https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/1776-counter-revolution-u...

I suspect in a couple of decades it will become the accepted view. It’s similar to how by 1990 (when I was in school) we had erased Christianity from the national origin story by projecting Thomas Jefferson’s deism onto all the founders.

Are you confusing the civil and revolutionary wars?

> The government takes 40-50% of your income every year

Wait, America now has European levels of taxation?

They were exaggerating. According to Wikipedia it's at about 27%.

Such taxes to such an extent are relatively modern in US history. I think people like to think that the money is spent for good because it would hurt even more if it wasn’t but I think much of it is wasted and a lot of it is counter productive. But perhaps I’m bitter at having governments subsides my competitors making my industry really unfair.

rayiner is just exaggerating by a factor of two.

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