Ask HN: How to survive as a homeless programmer in the winter (AB, Canada)?

Hi!

Sorry to hear about your situation.

If you are in Alberta the Bannf Centre will give you board, cheap food and pay for work (cleaning rooms, preparing food, etc).

I know this is not ideal, but being safe and warm is greater than being in the elements in the winter.

So I will say that my information is about 15 years old here... But I hope it helps...

I'm very sorry this is happening to you. I'm personally from Calgary and I know how rough the winters are and how poor our provincial system is. I've sent you an email, if you're from Calgary I'd love to chat and see what I can do.

If you left on good terms with the nice company you worked for previously then I would go back cap in hand and ask for my job back. You are a known quantity to them and there’s nothing wrong with saying “I made a mistake”.

Do you know about https://www.couchsurfing.com

It is really great!

Just don't burden your hosts with the full story :) If you try out this avenue, be positive and talk about all the good things in your life.

I vaguely recalled something like this but I forget the URL/haven't had the chance to check it out further yet! Thank you for sharing this/reminding me to check it out :)

And yeah haha, I know how to be positive but thank you for the reminder. part of the reason I'm under a random name is because I needed a place to vent that is more or less not linked to who I am. I do understand how important appearances can be/how what you say can impact how you're perceived.

I did the following for ~9 years.

0. Find someplace warmer and milder. CA coast between Los Angeles and San Diego.

1. Waterproof dry bags for electronics with desiccants. Beware taking cold electronics into warm rooms because that equals condensation, shorts, and/or corrosion.

2. Live in a vehicle, preferably a small RV and somewhere not adverse to vehicle dwelling.

3. Focus on what clients want specifically, not all possible technologies. Sign contracts charging by the project milestone rather than an hourly rate. Deliver without delay. Get an LLC (corporation) because it's cheap and allows large clients to pay you. Don't work for peanuts. $3k/week as an example.

Thanks for the advice! I'm not sure how feasible it would be for me to make it out to BC with next to no money + the cost of living out there is somewhat insane but I'll keep that in mind. I hope you're doing well :)

Does Vancouver lack a vehicle dwelling ban? They seem to be fairly liberal and have a relatively nice climate.

Canadian citizens need a green card or other visa to work in the USA. Living on the street in southern California, already overflowing with homeless people, seems worse than what Alberta might offer, except for a better climate. Especially for someone who has mental health issues.

I agree with the contracting advice, but without a decent network of contacts, a track history and reputation, anyone will find it tough to get contract/freelance work. Especially now with so many Americans laid off from tech jobs trying to do the same thing.

There's nothing about an LLC that make it easier for large clients to pay you. Freelancers can work as sole proprietors and get a business bank account. I've freelanced for a long time and never had a problem getting paid, or had to form an LLC or corporation to look more real or get paid. The big problem with getting paid in this case is not having an American Social Security Number for tax reporting (1099). An LLC will allow hiding that problem for a while, but then you can add tax evasion or fraud to the immigration violations.

hey man - i'm from the states and i'm really sorry that you have to go through all this. I'll send you and email.

I don't have much that I can help you with but

> I've been looking for a job/contract for 6+ months but last week I was evicted

Suggests your real problem is not finding a job but rather a lack of connection with reality.

> + she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis years ago.

I have a close family member with mental health issues. Your situation is going to make you more exposed for a psychosis episode. I'd focus on getting somewhere to sleep at any cost (any CC to max out?) as soon as possible to avoid getting an episode while you are homeless.

> don't have much that I can help you with

Clearly, I appreciate the concern but I can handle my mental health more or less just fine on my own thank you very much. I spoke to a psychiatrist on the phone days ago before I was evicted due to my own concerns and doubts in regards to my mental health/"conditions". They said they think I'm fine and they apologized for the "welfare" check I went through. Stigmatizing an individual as lacking a connection to reality based on their honesty with their past history/struggles with psychosis doesn't exactly seem very fair, does it? And let's say perhaps you are correct, just as a hypothetical, I am indeed in the throes of a psychotic episode! Oh no, what ever should someone in a position like me do?! I tried going to a 24/7 medical centre when I first got evicted and I claimed I was suicidal and very tempted to jump off a bridge but that was brushed aside and not taken seriously, I so desperately wanted to get "help" from the "healthcare/helping systems" we have in place. I was told I'd be fine and that I seem very intelligent! That's the help you get with our systems... I highly encourage you to do more research in regards to what going through a condition like psychosis is actually like for an individual/the social stigma around such a condition/the implications of such stigma/the long-term effects of anti-psychotic medications, the actual "support" most medical staff commonly provide to someone in a position like that, the number of peer reviewed studies with a sample size that isn't piss poor/etc in regards to conditions like that, the relationship between trauma/PTSD and psychosis, and how shitty of a job our systems are doing at implementing/practicing a bio-psycho-social model of care. I've had to learn *A LOT* on my own to understand what the hell is going on with me, almost no one has provided me with any real and or practical resources. A few days ago my previous "therapist" called a "welfare" check on me after I sent them an email expressing major frustration in regards to the "therapy" I have received over the past 6 years. I swore and said some unkind things towards them because I really am more or less near my breaking point and while none of this is her "fault", I would be far better off if they recognized the limitations of their training and referred me to someone/something who may have been able to provide support/resources to me that would _actually_ help someone in a situation like mine.

> I have a close family member with mental health issues. Your situation is going to make you more exposed for a psychosis episode. I'd focus on getting somewhere to sleep at any cost (any CC to max out?) as soon as possible to avoid getting an episode while you are homeless.

I agree! The longer I go without sleep, the more stress I go through, the more adversity I face, etc -> the more likely that will be to trigger another possible psychotic episode, I've managed to catch about 2 hours of sleep last night/this morning due to staying in a different section of a hospital/waiting room. Before that I was able to get a consistent 6-8 hours of sleep every night in the hospital until a guard "kindly" recommended I spend more time "visiting" and less time "lounging", today (last night?) I was recently woken up by a different security guard while I was catching some sleep in a different section of the hospital lobby (they were much kinder than the last one, credit where credit is due) anyways this nice security guard told me to move to a different waiting room but they also interrupted the little bit of rest/sleep I was trying to get while staying warm! Indeed, what a wonderfully caring "heathcare" system it is we have! Sorry for the tad bit of anger I'm expressing here but I've already maxed out my CC, I'm in a debt, and I REALLY have tried everything I can think of to put myself in a better position, including applying to numerous jobs with my unusual background, tailoring my CV to positions, trying to raise VC for my project (this surprisingly seems to be going better than my job search!), and that's not to say I haven't made mistakes in this process, maybe I could do a better job in regards to selling myself, if so please reach out and feel free to offer me some practical advice in regards to that. But please don't be demeaning in regards to my "connection to reality". I do encourage you to reflect on how difficult it is to find a job in this industry/field when you more or less have very few professional connections, no degree/certs, are a highschool dropout (btw I wish I could go back to school, I regret dropping out, I've always loved learning, lately I've been focusing on chaos/physics/information/quantum physics/graphs/etc and there's nothing more I'd love than to be able to pursue something like this formally now but I haven't been able to find a feasible way to support myself while pursuing that formally when you take into account that I need to survive/pay rent/food/bills/etc, Perhaps I missed something/some resources though, do feel free to provide some practical advice/resources/people I can contact to figure out a pathway to pursue such things :)

Idk,maybe my "tenuous connection to reality" is really the problem! The problem isn't maybe me having a crappy approach to writing a CV (Might be! I've had to teach myself more or less everything in this life) which one could offer practical advice/tips on, the problem isn't maybe my "poor grasp" on programming/practical coding skills/etc (which could be improved on! not to mention it's also possible to provide practical learning resources/skill assessments/feedback on such skills), the problem isn't maybe a piss poor social support system in my province, etc. Nope, it is *most definitely* my "lack of connection with reality." Once again, I apologize for the anger I'm expressing. But please reflect on how you expect your response to be of any use, guidance, or like a pointer towards a real resource, or to be of any actual help for someone in a position like mine. I hope your family member is doing okay and is able to find the support they need, it's just that if I'm being frank, I'm not able to find such things despite trying very hard to do so.

I can't help, but just wanted to wish you well.

If you haven't already you need to reach out to literally everyone you know. Old colleagues might be able to get you some work. Friends and family might be willing to give you somewhere to stay for a bit.

You're clearly a smart guy. You'll work this out. Just hold in there.

Thank you for your kindness, that's plenty of help as is! I agree, I'll figure something out eventually. Lifes just kinda crappy right now :/ I was able to get the ball rolling on social supports somewhat recently but I've been told it could take up to a couple weeks until that finalizes/I'm able to secure financial aid. I didn't really realize weekends would be a lot rougher than weekdays when you don't have a place to stay but they are

Doesn’t Canada have residence for those in such situations, and help to get them back on track?

The taxation should cover that in a social system.

Current provincial government doing all it can to reduce social assistance programs. They exist but not like how they use to.

Maybe try to go back to the company interested in your AGPL project? Giving them full rights is way better than being homeless

Don't do this.

It's better than starving to death, freezing to death, or being destitute the rest of your life, but subjectively, and objectively based on the comments, you'll find a way through, those aren't even close to likely outcomes.

I don't know how to say this in a convincing way, but, you only have one chance to either affirm your values or discard them. Sort of a "better to fight standing than die on your knees", except, that perpetuates the strawman that abuse and exploitation is somehow more desirable than working through a rough patch for a year to get out of an intolerable situation.

Sometimes a paycheck can break you day-to-day harder than not having a paycheck.

What? OP can create new projects... If alive and not homeless.

Yes, absolutely.

It's also a false dichotomy and I'd wager things aren't going to get better when they go to ask for their job back, even if they got it back.

Yes, this is helpful when you are outside by -10°C. You will die standing, literally.

I would give my work on the spot if it helped me to survive and possibly get back on tracks.

I don't know if you have fought like this, living in despair in the name of coding principles. If yes, good for you.

If not then this is the kind of comment that reminds me of our French "gauche caviar", the people with position and money who discuss about how to fight for your rights before going golfing (https://youtu.be/L1N3WXZ_1LM is the canonical comedy sketch for these people).

False dichotomy, as pointed out multiple times.

Hi! I'm in Vancouver (and also originally from AB.) I'm doing ok right now, but I have been through some dark times myself.

Sending you an email. Unsure of what help I can be, but I feel called to find out.

Send me a cv at my username on gmail please.

I will do so shortly! thanks for giving someone in a position like mine a small chance, even if I'm not quite what you're looking for it's nice knowing there's someone who would be kind enough to do that. I'd also be more than happy to jump through any skill assessments to see if I'd be a good fit/get on a VTC to verify I'm real haha

Wonder how much longer this post stays up.

There are a lot of red flags in this post.

I've known a few folks who have been homeless or had mental health issues, sometimes while working as a dev. Trauma and mental health concerns are good to consider but they're not necessarily showstoppers.

What kind of red flags?

> They tried to build their product from it and I wasn't able to tolerate that

If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

> I also brought up the fact I had security concerns in regards to their systems when I went in person but that was brushed aside/ignored

If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

> she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis

So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.

> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week

Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now

Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

Edit: My last point was not meant to suggest that under these circumstances, stealing a bit of food is reprehensible. Sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do. But broadcasting it is the red flag. It indicates a lack of discretion. I'm not trying to be callous here, but GP asked about red flags, so I was trying to describe some.

Well, I try to remember that if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

I mean... ok? So don't try to make their FOSS product your own product?

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

Ew. I would wonder why the staff wasn't able to tell him there is a process.

> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality

"years ago" in an unstable situation.

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

I'm pretty sure "social engineer" here means something along the lines of "yeah I'm visiting my cousin"

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

Unless they're working for a grocery store or restaurant I don't think their employer will be worried about them stealing food.

This reflects a viewpoint usually rectified by moral quandaries explored in elementary school, certainly middle school, fiction.

Much less, this gem, argumentation that you'd expect a 12 year old in debate class to be able to skewer if they wanted a B.

>> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

While I agree that the food thing is neither here nor there, I didn't find the warning absurd. Once you've been through one of these difficult cases and seen the impact that it can have on the other employees it's hard to unlearn that lesson of caution.

This person needs social and professional help, and the situation is very unfortunate. But based on the content of the OP if you bring them into your workplace (the assumed context here in this particular thread) without those two things then you should be sure you know what you're doing.

Yeah sure that's reasonable.

"it's a red flag if an employee ever stole food for a meal / camped at a hospital while homeless" isn't.

Upper-class a-human inanity unrecognizable by 90% of the populace. I wouldn't believe it was a real person making an honest argument if I hadn't self-made my way from inner city Buffalo startup to Boston at Google, and found out how sheltered people can be.

Thanks for this bit of sanity. I was losing my mind trying to think up an explanation as to why that comment wasn't flagged or inundated with comments pointing out the sheer stupidity and inhumane arrogance.

I don't want to be overly dramatic, but this has genuinely lowered my view of HN as a whole, and I'll think twice about reading the comments here from now on.

If I were to show this to any well-adjusted person I know, they'd probably think less of me for even being in the same community and profession as the person who wrote that comment.

Yeah, neither of those things make any difference to anything.

I also feel incredibly heartless for adding my own "be careful" message to this person's eager response to someone's plea for help, but there it is.

I don't want to downplay anything you've said because I think you're pretty much on the mark.

>> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

This is an unfortunate reality in Canada, especially in places where it gets cold enough to freeze to death during the winter (which most of Alberta would qualify for). Homeless shelters are full, the wait lists for social support, mental health support, and addiction support are long*, and hospitals are warm, publicly owned, and honestly so long as you're not making a nuisance of yourself they're probably not the worst place to hang out. There's usually public cafeterias and lots of seating throughout. Sleeping there would probably be a problem.

> bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment

This is another one of the oddities of the Canadian healthcare system. There's a few different categories of mental health support:

- Social services is free but often there isn't a whole lot they can help with. Employment Insurance (EI) has a pretty heavy paperwork burden and also requires you to have been employed recently and only lasts for a limited amount of time. Long-term disability has a lot of strings attached. If you do manage to find gainful income they take away your financial support 1:1; a woman I know went blind due to cancer when she was a teenager and was living in an apartment provided by social housing. She started making beaded jewelry and selling it at the farmer's market. Over a period of a year she managed to save up $500 to buy herself an iPad, which apparently has excellent accessibility features for blind users. When her social worker came by and saw it she threatened to deduct $500 off of the next disability cheque.

- There are psychiatrists available, for free, through the public healthcare system. They're by referral only and a referral must come from a GP. 20% of Canadians do not currently have a family doctor (~6M people) so their only access to psychiatric help is to convince a doctor at a walk-in clinic to make a referral. In most cases it's going to be months before you hear back. There are occasionally walk-in clinics that do have on-site psychiatrists but it's exceptionally rare.

- Psychologists and therapists are not covered by the public health system. Some do offer reduced rates for low-income patients but you're generally looking at somewhere in the $80-120/hr range. Like OP mentioned about astrology, there isn't a whole lot of quality control around this... you basically have to go interview them (and likely pay for the privilege) and make your own decision on whether or not you think they'll be someone you want to give more money to.

As an additional wrinkle, while healthcare is nominally free, prescription medication is not (although there was a big announcement around this yesterday, so that may be changing). Even if OP did manage to get an appointment with a psychiatrist and get an assessment and a prescription... how the heck are they going to pay for it? There are generally programs in place to provide medication discounts for low-income people but... again, paperwork burden and long turn-around times.

The brutal question that comes up on a pretty regular basis is: what do we do about people like OP? While we, in theory, have more humanity than just letting them freeze to death in the streets, we also do a piss-poor job at helping them get out of the situation they're in.

* Basically the only way to get seen by someone reasonably quickly is to tell them you're suicidal, but that'll probably result in an involuntary hold for a while.

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

I agree with you, I wasn't able to provide the full story due to the HN character limit. The contract I signed when I took up work with them explicitly stated my public work will remain mine. If that wasn't in the contract I would have said no. As I put it, it might not be a great look. Thanks for bringing that up

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

I agree, there probably is an established process I should have spent time looking into rather than raising the issue directly with the staff who work at the place/with the system itself. Like I said, I was a bit frustrated but it's definitely possible I could have brought that up in a more productive way

> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.

That was my first and so far only episode of psychosis, from my point of view it wasn't so much a bad experience with treatment. But a bad experience by nearly ending up homeless after due to my family kicking me out after I stabilized in the hospital/received/participated in treatment for my first ever episode of psychosis.

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

I lied about being a visitor compared to the very real alternative of freezing to death, shoot me lol

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

I somewhat agree, I'm not proud of stealing food and I have already went to a foodbank/received $27 to buy some food but that unfortunately only lasted a few days and I started getting hungry again/haven't been able to find more support for food since. Although maybe I should just try harder. Either way, thanks for bringing up that broadcasting that is a red flag, that is something I should be a bit more wary of, I've made a mental note of that but I doubt I'll need it once I get back on my feet

A hungry man cannot steal food.

I agree with some of the points, but regarding the food and being in the hospital, those statements are really harsh. It's painful, but he said the truth and based on his post those description implied really serious alternatives (dying, getting sick due to extreme cold).

I would give kudos for honesty

Replied above. Also to add:

* Completely new ycombinator account created 3 hours ago, no past history.

* Anonymised email service.

* Pseudonym.

None of that is suspicious on its own necessarily but it is part of a pattern.

Would you want to get Internet famous for being a homeless programmer, and have that shit come up on Google every time your resume is looked at? Give me a break.

Thank you for offering some kindness/another perspective, it's appreciated more than you know

fartfeatures might be a sock puppet account of an 11 year old, no email, pseudonym, and childish bodily functions name. 5 month old account with barely any history of commenting anywhere but this thread, and very low karma for a 5 month old account. Concerning.

Is this contributing to the discussion or is it simply an ad-hominem?

It's a tribute to Jonathan Swift

Maybe keep your suspicions to yourself unless you have evidence to the contrary? The guy's not asking for handouts and your negative posts my get in the way of someone being able to offer some real help.

#1 reason for becoming homeless is not asking for help when you need to.

Or perhaps our brains sometimes come up with excuses to look away from another human being’s suffering so that we feel less guilty?!

I can see how this conclusion would be appealing from that perspective but I’d encourage anyone with this line of thinking, to think twice before posting something to cause doubt and potentially causing someone else to receive less help/attention that they would have otherwise received.

Even if you think it’s plausible for someone to lie about something like a few years of open source contribution (which is very easy to verify for anyone who reaches out for them to help) please contemplate about the possibility of harm that this kind of comment might cause (a fellow human being suffering longer) vs the help you think you are providing by just casting doubt and uncertainty (potentially preventing someone more fortunate to send some money to someone else that didn’t actually need it?! Or they might be offered a job they might not have been offered otherwise?!).

O.P. I’m really sorry for what you’re going through, and I admire your courage and honesty. I hope life becomes more stable very soon!