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Comment by ericzawo | Hacker News Reader

I cannot believe how many extremely smart and capable people spend a large portion of their day opining about "woke."

If you had a political ideology that you disagreed with imposed on you in nearly every facet of your life - entertainment, work, school - what would your reaction be?

Would you put any effort into voicing your disagreement?

Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”? I think that says a lot. Are the ultra-rich who complain about the “woke mind virus” hurt in any way by diversity? No, they are not.

>> Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”?

Do you really expect universal understanding and agreement with a word/term that you felt necessary to put into air-quotes?

How about a proper definition to start with? Simply so that one can be clear on what they are agreeing or disagreeing with.

I put it in quotes because it's the term a certain set of people use (not me). It had a historical meaning to the Black community but that's been usurped by reactionaries.

People who use the word woke won't even define it themselves because doing so makes them look clearly like a bigot.

That's why it's all nods and winks.

Here's a definition that should be acceptable to both sides.

Wokeness is the belief in three axioms: 1. Disparity is undesirable 2. Disparity is caused by discrimination 3. Applying different discrimination will reduce disparity

Those on the "for" side will agree with these axioms. Those on the "against" side will disagree with these axioms.

Why would anyone disagree with fundamentalist Christianity? Why would anyone disagree with Wahhabist Islam? Why would anyone disagree with Maoism?

People have different opinions on politics, religion, society. The more extremist a certain group/movement/ideology is the more concerned about it people will become.

"Wokeness" as defined by the people who use it is not a religion (and it's not extreme). It's just pejorative word for diversity used by people who believe in white supremacy.

Just like Social Justice Warrior (SJW) before it, woke is a term that those it applies to gave themselves as a positive descriptor. It only took on a negative connotation with the general population when the people applying that descriptor to themselves kept acting in abhorrent ways. It wasn't "white supremacy", it was the behavior of the SJWs and now "woke" that created the negativity. And whatever term they come up with next will likewise quickly become tainted with negativity that reflects the activities of those who wear that label. Not sure what you think you gain by trying to gaslight people who have for years seen both of these labels self-applied by those who later have tried running away from them once their behaviors caught up with them.

That's a blanket statement you're making coming from your own biases that people who don't agree with woke ideology must be white supremacists.

I very much dislike woke-ism and I don't support white supremacy, and I'm also not super-rich. I very much dislike woke-ism because it's a political movement that tries to get people to ignore reality in favor of its dogmas and it often uses authoritarian tactics to do so.

Yes, when I say "woke-ism" I'm of course not using the word "woke" in its original non-pejorative meaning. But I can't think of a more precise, widely-understood word to use to refer to this social movement.

By your description you sound like you're woke as well. You're just less passionate and have a different approach. I think it would be benifitial to mingle with other woke people so that your different approaches kind of balance each other.

A fun game is to templatize that statement and try swapping it out with other beliefs:

Why would anyone disagree with <something I agree with>. I think that says a lot. Are the <people who my ideology targets> who complain about the <derogatory term for my political belief> hurt in any way by <the best part of my political belief>? No, they are not.

Why would anyone disagree with environmental activism. I think that says a lot. Are the corporate polluters who complain about the tree huggers hurt in any way by clean water? No, they are not.

Why would anyone disagree with conservatism. I think that says a lot. Are the left-wingers who complain about the rightards hurt in any way by individual liberty? No, they are not.

Who are "my ideological targets"?

Wokeness or being woke originally simply meant "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Very few people disagree with this because being alert does not say anything about how much prejudice exists. Two people can considers themselves woke by that definition and have radical different perceptions of prejudice.

The disagreement always comes when it comes to actually implementing solutions to the racial prejudice and discrimination.

Nobody would have cared if it stayed personal opinion. https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/10k31w3/d_...

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