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Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

If these do indeed turn into a pattern Apple is usually extremely good about free replacements/repairs.

But it generally takes them a bit of time to confirm that it's actually a manufacturing or design defect rather than people who just dropped it on the floor, and then ensure they have non-defective parts available.

I've personally had one MacBook screen and two AirPods replaced completely for free because of manufacturing defects over the past ten years -- all of which were out of the warranty period.

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Thats ironic to hear since every issue I've had with apple products over the last few years were only fixed due to class action lawsuits. Damn the Butterfly keyboards to hell.

I think this is the difference with Tim Cook’s Apple. I had good luck with Apple support many years ago where there was an obvious defect. The people at the Apple Store seemed empowered to do the right thing. These days it feels more like the math formula in Fight Club.

I don't think it was Tim Cook who claimed that you were holding it wrong...

Every other phone in its class had the same problem; people seem to forget they part. They gave out free bumpers to mitigate it, which I didn’t see other companies do. Of course it was only Apple in the headlines, because they get the clicks.

I’m not saying Jobs was perfect, but I had a lot of experiences in the Apple Store where they would fix stuff they had the power to fix, because it shouldn’t happen. I had a spec of dust under my screen and they replaced the screen no questions ask, at no cost. I was having a logic board replaced in my MBP and they replaced the screen clutch, just because they noticed it felt loose (I didn’t even notice before they replaced it)… no deductibles or anything.

Modern Apple Care feels much more like health insurance than an extended warranty.

> Every other phone in its class had the same problem; people seem to forget they part

No, they aren't forgetting anything. The magnitude of the issue with the 4 was significantly worse than with other contemporary devices, to the point of rendering it incapable of making a call if you were a lefty with sweaty hands.

AnandTech did a reasonably scientific comparison of the 4 with a few other devices at the time, if you don't believe me.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

This is just not true; the 4 went on to be one of Apple’s best-selling devices, long after the free bumper program ended. Its design was never changed; the media furor just faded and the phone worked fine and sold fine. I had one for years, for what it’s worth.

Also, they denied the problem for the longest time, even though they fired the antenna designer.

> Every other phone in its class had the same problem

Very wrong.

Anecdotal, but I’ve had an Apple Pencil replaced for free on the spot well outside of its warranty because it was defective and I hadn’t realised (don’t ask) I’ve had a Apple Store employee hand me a brand new iPhone when I brought in my phone that wouldn’t turn on one day - no questions asked. I’ve had friends with very similar cases. It’s always felt like “against policy” which might be their actual policy so it doesn’t get abused or something? They mentioned that the manager made an exemption for me with the Pencil. It’s very hard to track and very hard to advertise but their customer service in my experience has been exceptional.

Yes they are extremely good with free replacements/repairs after getting sued with a class action. Such a great company

Even after that, they don’t tell customers they qualify for a repair. The first ever Retina MacBook Pro had a kernel panic issue. It doesn’t manifest right away but Apple was sued and had to repair them.

Mine gave out a year after this and I only found out about the repair after reading online. Apple knew this MacBook is under my Apple ID and could’ve let me know about the issue, but chose not to.

I go to the Apple Store and they recognize the issue. Except they tell me the laptop is “vintage” after 2-3 years and even though it has an inherent flaw, they would not service it.

Do you think they refunded the people that had to get their butterfly keyboard replaced or repaired?

Vintage is 5 years after end of sales: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624. If the people at your store told you 2-3 years after you bought it they were not only very wrong, but also completely out of their mind given that just AppleCare alone would have put your coverage at 3 years.

I bought the Macbook second hand in 2013 and went into the Apple Store in 2017 when the kernel first panicked. It was a very close cut-off on the "vintage" designation, but I think that's besides the point. If there is a inherent flaw in a computer that can manifest much later on, the company should replace it or offer some sort of compensation. Otherwise, any company can retire a product and escape all responsibility.

If you think that's being unreasonable, just search 2012 Macbook Retina kernel panic and you'll see hundreds of threads from 2021 and onward about the issue. Those people paid for a product with a defect that manifested decades later and are now left to hang dry.

But there has to be some statue of limitations here.

If a product that most probably most people use for 4-8 years develops a problem 9 years later, then as long as it wasn't an intentional defect, I think you just have to chalk that up to bad luck.

I mean, what would the compensation even be? In theory, it would be capped at the resale value of a 9-year-old MacBook. Which is essentially nothing. Apple products hold their resale value far better than other electronics brands, but that's really talking about devices 2-5 years old.

At some point you just have to say you got your money's worth out of the product in the time you used it. Nothing lasts forever, and in laptop terms, 9 years is pretty close to forever.

(Obviously it depends on the product category -- things like washing machines are meant to last far longer, and come with things like 10 year guarantees on their motors.)

Even then they have some discretion... A few years back my mother gave me her old MBA she wasn't using, she windows on it but no MacOS for some reason... it wouldn't recover via network recovery because the latest os that model supported was so old it wasn't available via that route anymore.

Popped into my local Apple Store and they were more than happy to connect it to their WiFi where they had access to all the old OS versions and let me sit there whilst it restored.

That experience was to their benefit - 12 months later with a nice bonus from work I went back their and ordered 10 grands worth of stuff when my wife and I decided to move completely over to their ecosystem. Had nothing but great experiences in both support and usability/reliability since.

Yeah, in my experience they're happy to help with "vintage" hardware if it's just a matter of software assistance, like in your case.

The "vintage" designation is more about not being able to repair/replace hardware, because they simply don't make/stock the replacment parts/models anymore.

They often do replace/repair equipment for no charge even after a warranty is expired. It seems to be up to the local store manager.

It’s very hit and miss. I had a pair of AirPods Pro which developed, in both ears, a very strange hardware issue. Almost like random high pitch shrieking noises blended with the audio; like the noise cancellation would go berserk.

Both failed Apple’s test in the store. There was a repair program for audio issues - but my pair was made supposedly 4 months after it was fixed, so I had to get a new set.

I also had a MacBook 2017 which clearly, obviously, developed the stage light backlight issue. Only to find out the repair program only covered 2016 models.

Thus, if I had a nickel for every time Apple had a repair program for the exact issue I was having, but only up to the model just before mine, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice, right?

Addendum to the above: For what it’s worth, the best experience I’ve had with a company that had a hardware screw up is Nintendo.

Fill out form, print their shipping label, pop into box, Joy-cons are back 2 weeks later without paying a penny. They’ve also repaired things that clearly aren’t stick drift - like broken shoulder buttons, torn joystick caps, and one I sent in that was completely unresponsive.

In my case Google recently replaced my years old pixel 4a for free because of a bloating battery. A phone that doesn't even get android version upgrades anymore and was waaay past warranty. I still can't believe this considering the usual horror stories with Google support

Logitech were like this for me. I had a problem overseas with a (more premium) mouse. I called, spoke to person, sent them a video of the issue, got a replacement.

Surely they sent you new ones and did not bother repairing yours?

Depends. Sometimes I got some that looked replaced - other times, it looked like a repair. I don't know for certain though.

Doesn't really matter to me though - because it's not exactly a secret that the "repair" pile, under times of stress, may turn into a LIFO queue. (I.e. take incoming repairs without question, mail out replacements from the previously repaired pile, have a separate team repairing what can be repaired and throwing out what can't.)

Nintendo also famously supported the Famicom for 24 years https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-18-nintendo-of-japan-callin...

My AirPods Pro have the same issue if noise cancellation/pass through is on. It’s a known issue, also weren’t covered .

Apple used to be known for covering things, but that changed over the past 10 years.

I had a pair of Sony XM4s develop the same ANC shrieking issue. Would happen once every few hours. Sony sent them back saying they seemed fine to them :(

Mine too! Apparently it's a loose ground wire, I'm going to attempt a repair at some point.

I had my AirPods replaced under that program and the replacement pair was failing within 3 months. I am extremely gentle on my electronics, so it’s definitely not me that’s the problem. I’m never buying Apple headphones again.

I will chime in and say I also had a MacBook Pro screen replaced for dead pixels, no questions asked, no charge.

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