> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it.
Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?
Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?
/s
> Social Justice.
Sure, there's a discussion that can be had about a generic request generating an image of a black Nazi. The thing is, to me, complaining about a historically correct example is a good argument for why this kind of thing can be important.
It’s really hard to get these things right: if you don’t attempt to influence the model at all, the nature of the imagery that these systems are being trained on skews towards stereotype, because a lot of our imagery is biased and stereotypical. It seems perfectly reasonable to say that generated imagery should attempt to not lean into stereotypes and show a diverse set of people.
In this case it fails because it is not using broader historical and social context and it is not nuanced enough to be flexible about how it obtains the diversity- if you asked it to generate some WW2 American soldiers, you could rightfully include other ethnicities and genders than just white men, but it would have to be specific about their roles, uniforms, etc.
(Note: I work at Google, but not on this, and just my opinions)
When stereotypes clash with historical facts, facts should win.
Hallucinating diversity where there was none simply sweeps historical failures under the rug.
If it wants to take a situation where diversity is possible and highlight that diversity, fine. But that seems a tall order for LLMs these days, as it's getting into historical comprehension.
Failures and successes. You can't get this thing to generate any white people at all, no matter how explicitly or implicitly you ask.
You sure about that mate?
There could have been multiple versions of Gemini active at any given time. Or, A/B testing, or somehow they faked it to help Google out. Or maybe they fixed it already, less than 24 hours after hitting the press. But the current fix is to not do images at all.
> In 2023, The New York Times described Pool's podcast as "extreme right-wing", and Pool himself as "right-wing" and a "provocateur".
They're just straight up lying about him.
Nobody should.
They’re literally semi-random graphic artifacts that we humans give 100% of the meaning to.
Always doing that would be preferable to the status quo, where it does it just often enough to do damage while retaining a veneer of credibility.
The model isn’t trying to replicate reality, it’s trying to minimize some error metric.
Sure it may be inspired by reality, but should never be considered an authority on reality.
And yes, the words an LLM write have no meaning. We assign meaning to the output. There was no intention behind them.
The fact that some models can perfectly recall _some_ information that appears frequently in the training data is a happy accident. Remember, transformers were initially designed for translation tasks.
They're graphic artifacts generated semi-randomly from a training set of human-created material.
That's not quite the same thing, as otherwise the "adjustment" here wouldn't have been considered by Google in the first place.
I think, with respect to the point I was making, they are the same thing.
Unless I format my prompts very specifically, diffusion models are not good at following them. Even then I need to constantly tweak my prompts and negative prompts to zero in on what I want.
That process is novel and pretty fun, but it doesn’t imply the model is good at following my prompt.
LLMs are similar. Initially they seem good at following a prompt, but continue the conversation and they start showing recall issues, knowledge gaps, improper formatting, etc.
It’s not dishonest to say semi-random. It’s accurate. The detokenizing step of inference, for example, is taking a sample from a probability distribution which the model generates. Literally stochastic.
[edit]
Statistical inference machines following human language prompts that include "please" and "thank you" have absolutely 0 ideas of what a fact is.
"A stick bug doesn't know what it's like to be a stick."
But I would counter that there are certainly rules in art.
Both historical (expectations and real history) and factual (humans have a number of arms less than or equal to 2).
If you ask Gemini to give you an image of a person and it returns a Pollock drip work... most people aren't going to be pleased.
Google has a history of pushing woke agendas with funny results. For example, there was a whole thing about searching for "happy white man" and "happy black man" a couple years ago. It would always inject black men somewhere in the results searching for white men, and the black man results would have interracial couples. Same kind of thing happened if you searched for women of a particular race.
The sad thing in all of this is, there is actively racism against white people in hiring at companies like this, and in Hollywood. That is far more serious, because it ruins lives. I hear interviews with writers from Hollywood saying they are explicitly blacklisted and refused work anywhere in Hollywood because they're straight white men. Certain big ESG-oriented investment firms are blowing other people's money to fund this crap regardless of profitability, and it needs to stop.
It might be "perfectly reasonable" to have that as an option, but not as a default. If I want an image of anything other than a human, you'd expect the sterotypes to be fulfilled. If I want a picture of a cellphone, I want an ambiguous black rectangle, even though wacky phones exist[1]
[1] https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/...
And the stereotype the person asking would expect will heavily depend on where they're from.
Before you ask for stereotypes: Whose stereotypes? Across which population? And why does those stereotypes make sense?
I think Google fucked up thoroughly here, but they did so trying to correct for biases also gets things really wrong for a large part of the world.
If the data is lumpy in one area then I figure let the model represent the data and allow the human to determine the direction of skew in a transparent way.
The Nerfing based upon some internal activism that's hidden is frustrating because it'll call into question any result as suspect to bias towards unknown Morlocks at Google.
For some reason Google intentionally stopped historically accurate images from being generated. Whatever your position, provided you value Truth, these adjustments are abhorrent.
Try these exact prompts in Midjourney and you will get exactly what you would expect.
No, it's not reasonable. It goes against actual history, facts, and collected statistics. It's so ham-fisted and over the top, it reveals something about how ineptly and irresponsibly these decisions were made internally.
An unfair use of a stereotype would be placing someone of a certain ethnicity in a demeaning context (eg, if you asked for a picture of an Irish person and it rendered a drunken fool).
The Google wokeness committee bolted on something absurdly crude, seems like "when showing people, always include a black, an asian and an native american person" which rightfully results in a pushback from people who have brains.
“The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. - Marx
you may be arguing for an ideal and fair multicultural representation, but it's not what this sistem is representing.
that said, I struggle to see how the targeted cancellation of one specific culture would reconcile as a bona fide attempt at multiculturalism
It's certainly designed to try to correct for biases, but in doing so sloppily they've managed to make it if anything more racist by falsifying history in ways that e.g. downplays a whole lot of evil by semi-erasing the effects of it from their output.
Put another way: Either don't draw nazis, or draw historically accurate nazis. Don't draw nazis (at least not without very explicit prompting - I'm not a fan of outright bans) that erases their systemic racism.
If I ask to generate an image of a couple, would you argue that the system's choice should represent "some ideal" which would logically mean other instances are not ideal?
If the image is of a white woman and a black man, if I am a lesbian Asian couple, how should I interpret that? If I ask for it to generate an image of image of two white gays kissing and it refuses because it might cause harm or some such nonsense, is it not invalidating who I am as a young white gay teenager? If I'm a black African (vs. say a Chinese African or a white African), I would expect a different depiction of a family than the one American racist ideology would depict because my reality is not that and your idea of what ideal is is arrogant and paternalistic (colonial, racist, if you will).
Maybe the deeper underlying bug in human makeup is that we categorize things very rigidly, probably due to some evolutionary advantage, but it can cause injustice when we work towards a society where we want your character to be judged, not your identity.
Philosophically you can dilute and destroy the meaning of terms, and AI that has no such judgement can't generate realistic images. If you ask for an image of "an American family" you can assault the meaning of "American" and "family" to such an extent that you can produce total nonsense. This is a major problems for humans as well, I don't expect AI to be able to solve this anytime soon.
That would be a reasonable default and one that I align with. My peers might say it perpetuates stereotypes and so here we are as a society, disagreeing.
FWIW, I actually personally don't care what is depicted because I have a brain and can map it to my worldview, so I am not offended when someone represents humans in a particular way. For some cases it might be initially jarring and I need to work a little harder to feel a connection, but once again, I have a brain and am resilient.
Maybe we should teach people resilience while also drive towards a more just society.
In other words, having diversity everywhere is the prime objective, and if that means you claim that there were Native American Nazis, then that is perfectly fine with these people, because it is more important that your Nazis are diverse than accurately representing what Nazis actually were. In some ways this is the political left's version of "post-truth".
Understanding that your likelihood of being hired into the most prestigious tech companies is probably hindered if you don't look "diverse" or "female" angers people. This is just one sign/smell of it, and so it causes outrage.
Evidence that the overlords who control the internet are censoring images, results, and thoughts that don't conform to "the message" is disturbing.
Imagine there was a documentary about Harriet Tubman and it was played by an all-white cast and written by all-white writers. What's there to be upset about? Its just art. Its just photons hitting neurons after all, who cares what the wavelength is? The truth is that it makes people feel their contributions and history aren't being valued, and that has wider implications.
Those implications are present because tribalism and zero-sum tactics are the default operating system for humans. We attempt to downplay it, but its always been the only reality. For every diversity admission to university, that means someone else didn't get that entry. For every "promote because female engineer" that means another engineer worked hard for naught. For every white actor cast in the Harriett Tubman movie, there was a black actor/writer who didn't get the part -- so it ultimately comes down to resources and tribalism which are real and concrete, but are represented in these tiny flashpoints.
I wonder how true this is nowadays. I had my foot out the door after 2016 when things started to get extremely politically internally (company leadership crying on stage after the election results really sealed it for me). Something was lost at that point and it never really returned to the company it was a few years prior.
When the results are more extremist than the unfiltered model, it's no longer a 'small mistake'
I propose rill-hiff until someone who actually know what they’re doing shows up!
Probably cheating somehow!
Or, how Gemini would say...
40% is taken by A DIVERSE SET of managers forwarding e-mails among themselves and generating unnecessary meetings.
They commented that this was the first one that was both under budget and late and wondered how that could be. I volunteered that it was because "we are interns and don't get paid much and it was late because we spent a month waiting for the DBA to correct a mistake he made - we could have been done early."
There were shocked faces. Lunch was good and there were not many more questions.
This is Google on one hand and the Internet on the other.
So probably not?
This is a debate between people who want AI to be reflective of reality vs. people who want AI to be reflective of their fantasies of how they wish the world was.
"What should we do about black nazis?" is a pretty basic question.
If they'd thought about that at all, they wouldn't have walked this back so quickly, because they at least would have had a PR plan ready to go when this broke.
That they didn't indicates (a) their testing likely isn't adversarial enough & (b) they should likely fire their diversity team and hire one who does their job better.
Building it like this is one thing. If Google wants to, more power to them.
BUT... building it like this and having no plan of action for when people ask reasonable questions about why it was built this way? That's just not doing their job.
Won't happen.
They'll hide behind the corporate veil.
Probably not, but that is precisely the point. They're stubbornly clinging to principles that are rooted in ideology and they're NOT really thinking about consequences to the marginalized and oppressed that their ideas will wreck, like insisting that if you're black your fate is X or if you're white your guilt is Y. To put it differently, they're perpetuating racism in the name of fighting it. And not just racism. They make assumptions of me as a gay man and of my woman colleage and tell everyone else at the company how to treat me.
Do I think that the teams involved were institutionally incapable of considering that a plan to increase diversity in image outputs could have negative consequences? Yes, that seems pretty clear to me. The dangers of doing weird racecraft on the backend should have been obvious.
Have fun with that AI.
[0] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discriminatio... [1] http://gendershades.org/overview.html