Seriously GIMP devs, instead of this overengineered solution, just get rid of layer boundaries. There's a reason no other layer-based image editor has them: they make absolutely no sense and are terrible UX.
Seriously GIMP devs, instead of this overengineered solution, just get rid of layer boundaries. There's a reason no other layer-based image editor has them: they make absolutely no sense and are terrible UX.
I really wish it had Photoshop compatibility mode for hotkeys and behavior. The former is a very common tweak.
Layers having boundaries feels... obvious to me? Like, when I scale a layer, the boundaries are what I'll be scaling. When I crop a layer, I'm cropping the boundaries. If I have a large image and insert a small icon in the middle, should the icon's layer take the full size of the canvas? What exactly is supposed to happen if I insert an image that's larger than the canvas?
A layer in GIMP having boundaries is equivalent, to me, to a shape in Inkscape having a size.
Perhaps the existing code makes it difficult, and I get the impression the devs have been stuck dealing with other tech debt for a long time. But this should really be high on the list of things to address.
I don't mean to be rude to the work done to make Gimp, but the harsh truth is that Gimp's UX has been a joke for over a decade
If you just need to crop, erase a pimple or a coke can on the floor, basically anything will do.
Pixelmator doesn’t even support CMYK editing, it only exports in it. It’s not even in the convention for serious image workflow.
Or have expectations that...make sense? The way GIMP represents layers is unintuitive, at best.
There are some de-facto tools (Adobe Photoshop, etc.) that have paved the way for intuitive UX in this space - no need to re-invent the wheel in areas that are well-established by now.
And if you want something that has specific size and resizable and can be placed out of canvas. Use object instead.
Why would gimp even resist to make draw layer that have specific size at first place?
Hypothetically if GIMP just copied the photoshop UI and expected behavior a lot of tutorials for PS translate directly making GIMP accessible, which ultimately plays to the favor of GIMP as it is more accessible in that it's open source, free, and doesn't require subscription or accounting.
Also since GIMP is decentralized and volunteer-ran it'd be interesting to see exactly what Adobe would do about it, if they could even do anything.
Something else that would be nice to see from the open source community would be standardization in the control schema across software. For instance I use Blender a lot, but I also use Inkscape, and jumping between the two is... Less than pleasant because there's a pretty significant amount of overlap, but none of it is able to be homogeneous as there is some hard coding that a keymap alone doesn't allow for convergence.
That applies if your only goal is to create FOSS software that competes head-on with proprietary applications, so that being FOSS is the only differentiator.
But obviously, this isn't always applicable as a general principle. If you want to enable new functionality and support new use cases, where there are a variety of approaches or trade-offs, and conventions aren't well-established yet, you probably shouldn't presumptively conform to an a priori monoculture.
> Less than pleasant because there's a pretty significant amount of overlap, but none of it is able to be homogeneous as there is some hard coding that a keymap alone doesn't allow for convergence.
This is a great counter-example, where adhering to well-established conventions for problems that are already solved is advisable. There's been a lot of divergence in UI design recently, with lots of applications moving away from decades-old standards for purely aesthetic reasons, and creating huge usability regressions in the process.
And that is the problem. People who have learned tools from what is now an established, multi-editor, digital medium, find they can't do what they wish to do.
I suspect very few even try to make this jump anymore.
GIMP still requires artists to think about and develop their workflow in the sequence that works best for GIMP.
Waving them away like this is a mind trick that the GIMP community should simply ban outright; it's devastating.
(Unless you mean this satirically and it's just gone over my head)
Mac is blessed with several fantastic image apps. After using Pixelmator Pro for 5 minutes, I bought it. It does all the things I’ve wanted in GIMP, but I can figure out how to use it without hitting Google.
For example, can a mortal draw a circle with GIMP now? Up through the last time I used it, you had to select an ellipse (and hold down ctrl or something to constrain that ellipse to a circle), then stroke it as a path. In other apps, you choose the shape tool, and plop down a circle. While it could be that there was some esoteric case where GIMP’s weird process was nifty, it was markedly worse than everything else in the 99.9% of cases where you just wanted a circle.
For me, it was never that it wasn’t a Photoshop clone. I couldn’t care less about that. It’s that it was almost deliberately obtuse in ways that no alternatives were.
When I crop, resize, move, ... a layer, its boundary is cropped, resized, moved, ... accordingly. What happens if you move a layer without boundaries, like in Photoshop? That's probably intuitive to people who are used to Photoshop, but not to me. What happens to contents that now fall out of the image boundary?
To explain layers in raster image editors to novices, they are often compared to transparent slides. Well, layers with boundaries are simply such slides. If I move a slide, the slide moves, including its boundaries; same with other operations.
Can you still have a layer that is bigger than the image boundary, or would pixels get cropped when they move outside?
What happens if you apply a noise filter? Does it generate an infinitely large layer with noise? Or only generates noise on the visible portions? Or some other arbitrary rect in between?
And how would you handle the case of a small layer with a weird blend mode like multiply/subtract? With no boundaries it now must apply to the entire image below.
I’m sure there are solutions to these individually but it’s clearly a very complex problem to solve all these kinds of cases in an intuitive way.
(Speaking from ignorance as someone who only did some mild graphics design work using fireworks in the mid-00's for forums).
Would it mean that anything that exists outside of the visible canvas would be cropped on save?
also, paths and text can be exported to svg format, but i still wouldn't call gimp a suitable editor for rich vector graphics. the vector features are more just a means to a (rasterized) end.
But what that does is renders some kind of object (don’t recall if it’s rasterized or what). If you later notice a typo, or want to change the font, font size, or path a little bit, you have to throw away the rendered object, make your changes to the text object (hope you kept it as a hidden layer or something!), and then re-render and re-stroke it.
I’m glad I was working on something for fun (bottle label) and that I didn’t particularly care about the end result.
> Not if you're saving to the GIMP project file format.
Ok, but if I understood correctly we're asking GIMP to remove code paths that have different layer boundaries, so that would surely affect GIMPs project file format?
If you "flatten" the layer, then you might lose what's beyond the boundaries.
What am I missing?
I don't care if it's "efficient," we're talking about environments which have orders of magnitude more resources and efficient disk caches and god knows what else. It's nearly 2025.