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Comment by noja | Hacker News Reader

Great! Now can we have backups so we don´t lose our messages if our phone gets stolen or breaks?

Backups have existing for quite some time: settings -> chats -> backups

update: only on android. turns out there are quite a few caveats for backup. See https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

Nope. Latest version.

Backup functionality was removed in the latest version?

No. iOS builds don't support it.

I don't see that option in Settings > Chats on my iPhone. What device are you using?

My cousin comment [1] provides a bit more detail, but this is not available on iOS/iPadOS despite Apple allowing apps to save files to the filesystem and many other apps supporting this for years now.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39445286

I see it, but it just looks like it uses internal storage. So far as I know, there's no Drive File Stream/Dropbox sync for Android, so you'd still lose your shit if you weren't manually backing them up somewhere.

I doubt that's a habit many people will develop for a setting they didn't even know existed.

It's not going to help a casual user but I solved the problem by putting the Signal backup in a Syncthing shared folder. It's been a workable solution at least 2 phone swaps now

It tries to keep 2 copies and so uses 2x the space on your phone. If you're sending a lot of images and video, then it becomes impractical quickly.

Please stop peddling this horrible experience as a form of a valid backup. A process that requires full manual interaction and requires you to know ahead of time when your phone will break or be stolen is not a useful backup process.

Eh? My Signal auto-backups every night to a device folder which I then replicate off with Syncthing. How is that requiring "full manual interaction"?

I think GP is being a little too harsh, but I also think you're being a little too generous. If it requires a third-party tool like sync thing, then it seems like a hard point to argue that signal has Auto backups. It's better than nothing, but it is definitely not as seamless as most users would expect from a backup solution.

It doesn't "require" Syncthing, I just choose to use it. I could choose to keep it on my device, or upload it to Dropbox or something else. Even keeping it locally is still a backup that protects against the device corrupting it's local database or accidentally getting uninstalled / cleared.

There's no single obvious thing called "this is what everyone wants from backup".

> My Signal auto-backups every night to a device folder which I then replicate off with Syncthing

> It doesn't "require" Syncthing

I'm talking about your solution, and yes it does seem to require syncthing, unless you are using some fourth party tool that sets up syncthing automatically for you, and in that case it still isn't built in to Signal.

There are other possible solutions, but you used your solution as an example. If you have a different solution that doens't require syncthing and also doesn't require manual intervention (i.e. Signal app can automate the process), please share it. Remember what the comment said that we are replying to:

> Please stop peddling this horrible experience as a form of a valid backup. A process that requires full manual interaction and requires you to know ahead of time when your phone will break or be stolen is not a useful backup process.

Did you not have to manually setup syncthing (or some other sync tool) to get it working? Or do you know of some way to do that with just Signal?

Unless you are saying that Signal has a built-in backup solution that doesn't require manual intervention (like configuring some sort of third-party syncing service) then you aren't rebutting anything.

If we're widening the definition of "manual intervention" to "I have to configure my device to do what I want", then yes. Setting up backups is a task that requires a manual intervention.

You want signal to fully automate the process of configuring your device with an arbitrary third party service to send backups to with zero "manual intervention"? I think you're asking for the moon on a stick.

It's pretty safe to say that most users will want a type of "backup" that actually leaves the device so the data doesn't disappear if your phone falls out of your pocket and breaks or gets stolen.

It's after all, a device that's carried around and much easier to destroy than pretty much any other.

For most of population (you know, the ones we all want to get onto Signal so they stop using Meta and Apple stuff) not losing their valuable pictures, memories and conversations is way above the paranoia of some theoretical government official deciding to give up while trying to unlock your phone.

I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. And even if it were, there's eleventy billion different ways to have the data leave the device and wind up somewhere else.

Should Signal support/implement all of these? Some of them? Which ones?

Whichever. As long as it works. Plenty of choice. Instead they spend time with crypto crap.

Not just Signal, also Session, which is mildly more unnamed.

They're pretty bad. You can't specify where the backup goes, so if you are running low on storage space (eg if you have a lot of photos or videos to back up) and add an SD card, tough luck because you can't save there. The best you can do is manually export your media (also without any choice over where it goes) and then manually move it to the SD card to make space on your internal storage. They say this is for security but if an attacker is in a position to export your backup, they are already in your signal account.

Same story with the PIN signal requires if you haven't used it in a few hours. It's the same as your phone PIN and there isn't anywhere you can change it, so it's just security theater.

> Same story with the PIN signal requires if you haven't used it in a few hours. It's the same as your phone PIN and there isn't anywhere you can change it, so it's just security theater.

This is not the Signal PIN. It sounds like you have the Screen Lock option enabled.

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si...

I'm aware of the registration lock PIN. But the screen lock option is just the same as the phone PIN, so it provides zero additional security.

But there are backups available in signal app

There are no backups available on the iPhone/iPad app, only a device-to-device transfer while setting up a new device assuming your previous device and new device are both iPhones/iPads. This is despite support for apps storing files to the filesystem that was added some years ago now, and many other apps on those platforms supporting backups of custom file formats (or JSON, etc.).

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

I'm currently facing this issue.

The process to transfer the history is to scan a QR code displayed on the new phone by the app on the old phone.

Well, the camera on my old iPhone is broken. The phone has 3 other working cameras, but I cannot switch which one the app uses…

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