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Comment by ramesh31 | Hacker News Reader

Seems like they're giving up (on HMD hardware). Index will probably be the last headset Valve makes. It was a fun idea. But with the Vision Pro showing that even Apple can't make the "smartphone strapped to your face" version of VR work, it's becoming pretty obvious that it's a technological dead end for anyone but niche gamers.

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I'm clearly just a casual passer-by. Any chance you could elaborate the connection between opening an audio SDK and giving up on hardware? To me that feels like a big leap.

> it's becoming pretty obvious that it's a technological dead end for anyone but niche gamers.

Even if that's the case, it's OK to have a niche product. Gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry so the market is worth pursuing.

Giving up on hardware? The steam deck OLED was released last November

I have a copy of every piece of Valve hardware except for a Steam Machine, and if there's anything that that's taught me, it's that Valve cannot make hardware v2 in anything. I snapped up the transparent case OLED Steam Deck immediately because I do not expect there to be a Steam Deck 2

I’ve understood it as: Valve isn’t really in the hardware or console business. They release these fairly open devices in the hopes they get copied by others. Either to create a new market for Steam or to ensure an upcoming market has at least some Steam compatible devices.

Or they work with manufacturers like with HTC and Oculus for SteamVR, and the original Steam Machines which the only manufacturer I remember is Alienware.

Though they seem to be keeping SteamOS 3 close to their chest.

Valve knows how to count to 2, it just takes a long time. Now I would never expect a v3 of anything...

With how well the steam deck was received, I'd expect them to lean more into it? Is it better in press than it was in actual sales?

And I know I have tentative plans for the next VR thing they try. I have the PSVR2 and it is really good at the games it is for. To the point that I'd expect next generation efforts to be amazing.

The problem is that Valve’s profit margin on the store is very healthy. Low production runs of a hardware device are just not making them a lot of money comparatively.

Fair. That said, I get the impression they still do a lot because they want to. Not necessarily because they have to.

Valve is a privately held company. It's not forced to maximize quarterly returns for shareholders, it just does whatever Gabe wants.

That being said, Steam Deck probably sells more games than, for example, the Steam Controller did. Probably sells more games than their VR headset did too.

Vision pro is laptop chips and silicon backplane microdisplays, a bit of a move away from the smartphone on your face approach components wise, though I'm sure some of the sensors may be shared.

Thats a pretty hot take.

It's way too early to say the Vision Pro is a flop. Remember, the first Apple Watch received mixed reviews. Yet, after several updates and feature additions, it became one of the most, if not the most, popular wearables.

History often repeats itself with Apple products initially deemed failures. To illustrate, consider the initial reception of the iPod, as discussed in this link:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.5...

One more thing, Valve hasn't exited the hardware market. The Steam Deck is a clear indication of their ongoing commitment.

Yeah Vision Pro strikes me as typical Apple first gen more than anything. It might in reality be a flop, but I’d wait a few hardware generations before declaring as such with any level of certainty.

> History often repeats itself with Apple products initially deemed failures.

Maybe, but that never saved the Lisa, the Newton or the Butterfly keyboard. Sometimes, Apple takes a big risk that's far too early, expensive or simply doesn't pay off.

I don't think it's a particularly hot take to say that VR/AR content creation has been stagnant for a decade. Valve couldn't save it by moving mountains, Meta barely made it mass-marketable with a barebones MVP, and Apple is... gentrifying the higher-end. It's not so much an insult towards Apple as it is to the field and it's market fit. Nobody has had an "iPhone moment" yet, not even Apple.

In the case of the butterfly keyboard, market fit is a very different thing from engineering failure

Vision Pro is going to be an interesting watch. I doubt it is bad gear, but it is hard to really understand the market Apple is chasing. In particular, the consumer VR market is dominated by gamers to an absurd degree. Trying to pull casuals into it feels way too strained. Similarly, professional use doesn't seem to be a strong value add, either. Will be interesting to see where things land.

Vision Pro is to meta quest 3 what Starbucks is to local coffee shops.

Meaning, quest 3 is amazing, and Vision Pro is the best thing to happen to AR.

I hope steam doesn’t pull out. Zuck can preach about openness but the platform is still antagonistic to pc users.

I'm still rather bullish against AR. The passthrough of the PSVR2 is nice, to get your controllers in hand and room setup. Otherwise, I don't see the value add, just yet. Heck, the best games make use of the headphones so well that I feel like I'm already in another room.

Apple Watch is a flop. It's not delivered on anything other than being a good fitness tracker.

I would dearly love to have a flop like the Apple Watch... If a product with tens of billions in yearly revenue is a flop, well, sign me up!

At this point, Apple could release a line of $99 drink cozies and sell out 5 minutes after they announce it. The fact that people buy what Apple sells isn't really an indication of whether the product is good or not.

It's been selling well for almost 9 years now! You can call it many things, but it is clearly not a "flop".

I didn't call it a "flop", I said it's status as a flop doesn't correlate to how good a product is. The Butterfly Keyboard never flopped, but it also never got a legitimate competitor. People bought them because they were forced to, same as they were with Airpods and arguably the Apple Watch.

I feel the same way about a lot of Apple products. The Magic Trackpad would sell out instantly if it got a new model with USB-C - but Apple knows they can ship more Lightning cables if they avoid it. It's part of the sinister math that goes into making you and I rely on Apple's constant... ahem, Innovation.

The Magic Trackpad comes with a USB-C (computer) to Lightning (Magic Trackpad) cable.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK2D3AM/A/magic-trackpad-...

(I agree with you, for what it's worth - Apple is weirdly slow to update some of their products; AirPods Max stand out here as missing USB-C and the lossless audio of AirPods Pro.)

You're right, and it doesn't break compatibility with USB (curse the idea of MFi on PC) which is the important part.

Still, it makes my relatively-new Magic Trackpad 2 feel old and alien. Whatever reason there was for Lightning is lost me when I can't juice my peripherals up with the same cable that charges my Macbook.

>If a product with tens of billions in yearly revenue is a flop, well, sign me up!

Windows 11 also sold incredibly well yet I still consider it a flop.

Over 50 million units sold and the most popular wearable device ever made. Yeah, total flop.

I take it you mean flop differently than a successful product from a business and profit perspective. Like a comedian can flop around on stage in a hilarious bit of slapstick humor which you might call a successful flop. But the two hour comedy special the slapstick is part of might be panned by critics and audiences and that would be a flop of an entirely different sort.

But.... the Watch was a failure and failed to find its market fit. It never took off with biohackers, it isn't useful for interacting with products or services or any communications service, and it can't even really tell the time unless you charge it every other day.

The Steam Deck otoh became an absolute hit on day one and completely sold out in short order. It sold waaaayyy better than Valve ever thought it would.

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