Ask HN: Why are Android phones such a scam?

I get Pixel phones and keep them until the battery goes. I've owned the original, the 5, and now the 7. None of the in-betweens because I didn't need to upgrade (the battery in the 5 went a bit earlier than expected, but I still got 3 or so years out of it, which is okay). Technically my original Pixel still works, but the screen is cracked pretty good so it's my backup phone.

Why do you feel you need to change phones every 2 years? The hardware is probably fine unless your carrier of choice completely changes their network. The software will still work, although security fixes might be less frequent (it seems those are done for about 4 years, though 3rd-party distributors like Motorola might not honour that).

Are you sure your perception that you need a new phone every couple years isn't being driven by marketing and contracts?

I don't change my phone every two years. But it feels every time I get a new phone, I stop getting any regular updates after two years and no security upgrades after four years or less.

And right now, my phone is not usable even if the battery was still good because the banking apps now refuse to operate due to the security environment being depreciated.

I have 4 and 8 year old phones (besides my current). The 8 year old phone needs nursing into a factory reset - immediately switch off auto updates to prevent the normal installed apps loading (they are there as stubs only until then). The 4 year old one is better but still labours with modern apps. To be fair neither was more than utilitarian when I bought them.

So I think the actual physical performance of the phone is more of an issue than the OS.

Well there's your answer. The app developers have decided - rightly or wrongly - that environments of a certain age (or more likely Android version) do not meet their security requirements. My bank app supports Android 9+ which is nearing 5 years old now I think, and it should still work on my Pixel XL :)

That said, the phone is definitely usable - as a phone and probably for texts and many other apps. But if the 2-4 year lifespan of your banking app is the issue, maybe just use it on the desktop or through a browser instead of the dedicated app. As long as you can get a recent-ish browser installed on your phone, you might be able to use the web banking interface (not all banks have mobile-friendly versions, admittedly).

And yes, I believe the official stance of Google with regards to updates is 2 years of updates followed by 2 more years of security-only updates. Other manufacturers may do less than that, which is one reason I get the Pixel phones.

At that point, why aren't you changing the battery to get some extra longevity?

Some newer Android phones seem to be bucking this trend with longer and longer support windows:

- Pixel 8 phones will get guaranteed Android version updates for at least 7 years until at least 2030. [1]

- Recent Samsung models seem to offer longer 5+ years of updates, too.

Also, perhaps the budget Android phones seem to have shorter support windows (like if you got a Pixel 8 in 2028 the 7+ years may seem more like 2)

And Apple devices tend to get longer support.

[1]: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z...

I have pretty much the same complaints about my iPhone.

ALL smartphones are a scam. They're designed to slurp as much cash as possible out of the customer. Once upon a time, you could plug any phone into any computer and transfer files back and forth easily. Try doing that today. "Oh, you want to access that photo? Pay here."

I seriously think about getting a non-Western phone brand like Huawei for my next phone.

I think it often boils down to "get what you paid for". You can't expect a $100-200 phone to last you for a decade, same for laptops and other appliances.

On the other hand, if you are willing to spend $500+, you often can use them for 10+ years if you take good care of them (strong case to protect the screen, reduce humidity, replace battery when needed).

Except the phones do last that long at that price point, it's just the software updates that stop.

I have a 15 year old bog standard Toshiba satellite which wasn't expensive.

You don't get what you pay for with hardware at all.

Yeah but then you head to xda and install lineageOS or something along those lines

Why do you need a banking app? Every bank I've worked with has web apps, phones, and open doors to walk in and work with someone face-to-face. I've literally never installed an app on my phone to handle anything financial.

I understand why you might like an app - but is it actually a need? If so, why?

Every bank is different, some require the app for certain authentication or transactions.

How does your bank handle 2fa for online, individual, purchase approvals?

In the UK it's SMS, call, or in app approval. In app requires biometrics, or failing that usually a complicated two stage password.

That is completely alien to my experience. I have a credit/debit card connected to my account, so I just enter the card number and that is all it takes.

Consider: "no phone".

Anything one actually needs to do on the Internet is far easier to do with a desktop / real computer client, as opposed to any phone.

Phones are far more signifiers of tribal allegiance than useful, functional objects now.

There are quite a few places(countries and regions) on earth right now that pretty much require you to have access to a smartphone to get around. China = WeChat Sweden = BankID, any public transport company uses apps to name the 2 on top of my head right now.

Sadly we're getting more and more locked into having a smart phone to get around unless you're filthy rich or off the grid.

Pretty much. I need my phone for my banking apps if not for anything else. It used to be that banks would have separate dongles for 2-step authentication, but pretty much everyone seems to have switched to a smartphone app now.

Desktops are a second-class citizens in India. It is assumed by default that the primary digital interaction for an individual starts from a Mobile phone.

The only thing I do with my bank is to check my balance, via a Web Page, on a desktop/laptop. I certainly wouldn't want to try to do that on a tiny screen with a horrible virtual keyboard.

I managed to avoid "Smartphones" until getting a Moto Power G (2021) last year when they killed 3g phones. The first thing I did was remove all the apps for social media, and turned off Email notifications. If you need to reach me, you call (and play nice with Google's screening service), or send a letter in the mail.

Smartphones are great for running Termux/SimH/VAX780/Open VMS 7.2 and engaging in a bit of nostalgia... oh and Pokemon Go.

I don't try to do serious computing on them.

The Apple hate is so strong here

That being said, I agree with the sentiment of no phone in the sense that they don’t truly add much from a quality of life perspective when you are away from a computer. They just try their best to distract the hell out of you.

You are presently in a thread titled "Ask HN: Why are Android phones such a scam?"

This is general "tracking beacon / tribe idol" hate.

For specific Apple hate, I have a different rant: about how Steve Jobs founded a more pernicious cult than Scientology, brilliantly adapting the lessons of previous efforts while improving their efficiency, by dispensing with the humility and humanity that had hampered others.

It is getting somewhat better recently, but a phone like the Samsung A15 is still an exception : for under $170, you get 4+1 years of support, which is good enough I guess (less than $3/month).

I use an iPhone 6s from 2015.

Seems fine. No doubt could be better but works ok.

I don’t think it gets major new releases but the software still seems to get some sort of updates.

My son got a Google phone the key factor being software updates.

Respect. Just know that it’s so much easier for a script kiddie looking for a quick buck to hack you. Don’t expect anything on their to be secure.

My Galaxy S20 is in the sweet spot of 3+ years old where I still get security updates but I thankfully don't get any more big feature updates so I don't have to worry about my phone getting enshittified with whatever AI shovelware I imagine is the focus right now. Or an OS revamp that moves and redesigns everything for only the sake of being newer.

I've had both Apple and Google hardware become unusably slow on me after getting a big OS update. I don't know if it's aggressively planned obsolescence or just bad software, but either way I'm done buying hardware from them. I've never had a bad experience with Galaxy phones so I'll stick with those.

EU needs to strongarm Samsung to more reasonable support windows.

> I typically like Motorola offerings.

Motorola/Lenovo are one of the most notorious Android OEMs for poor software support.

Android Enterprise Recommended devices used to have a 3/5 year software update requirement, but this was dropped a few years ago.

Your best bet is either the Google Pixel 8 or Samsung Galaxy S24 as they come with 7 years of software support.

iOS platform is not dramatically better in this area to be fair.

But android severely suffers from “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem beyond their common challenges.