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Comment by karlkloss | Hacker News Reader

I don't miss those times. Walkmen were expensive, good cassettes were expensive, batteries were expensive, cassettes wore out sooner or later, the player's rubber parts wore out and then it damaged the tape, skipping was a pain in the back, sound quality was limited, recording/copying took forever, etc. Nah. As soon as mp3 arrived, I converted everything and never looked back.

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I'll the grey beard here but I think that painful skipping (that was present also in vinyls even if a bit differently) forced people to listen to full albums . You cannot really know an artist or judge an album/period if you didn't listen also to the less good songs.

But is it really important to really know them?

Probably not. But some great songs take quite a few listens to gel (this might just be me) and I find if I'm listening to streaming music I am skipping songs and missing out to a certain extent.

Certainly a lot of artists put out albums with a lot of "filler" material, but if I was a new listener trying to pick up (say) David Bowie or Steely Dan or Sufjan Stevens I might miss out on a richer experience by not listening to the whole albums and just skipping to the hits and familiar songs.

Some of my favorite songs are ones I would have missed if I was only listening to the singles or top track list from a streaming service.

It is also quite satisfying to put on a cohesive album that can be enjoyed from start to finish.

i'm still basically a kid but i absolutely feel the pull to just skip through playlists, its like a compulsion and when i do it i find i dont actually enjoy the music as much, even as hard as it is to stop. it feels sorta like doomscrolling on social media feels yknow? i've started putting on albums and forcing myself to just not skip through them and i don't know what it is but it just feels better. i think the difference is that listening to the whole thing is more deliberate

You should try a concept album.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_album

They're like a movie; they have a story to tell. Try Pink Floyd - The Wall.

see also: * Frank Sinatra - _In the Wee Small Hours_ (1955)

* David Bowie - _The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars_ (1972)

* The Who - _Quadrophenia_ (1973)

* Pink Floyd - _The Dark Side of the Moon_ (1973)

* The Streets - _A Grand Don't Come for Free_ (2004)

Wearing out of the physical medium makes music more valuable, and your experience directly depends on perceived value.

Startup idea: DRM-locked audio files that can only be played once.

I have used in the distant past DRM music files that counted how many plays I had left, but I remember not much of it. I think it was a Nokia phone. Maybe WMA files with PlayReady DRM?

That’s an interesting point. At first glance, the difference is that DRM-locked audio is not your property (or at least it does not feel like that, due to copying being zero cost) whereas the physical medium being worn down is.

That makes sense from a psychological perspective. People generally don't take kindly to artificial scarcity, while natural scarcity (such as number of plays being inherently limited by an otherwise good-enough medium) is much more acceptable, and sometimes even valued.

An interesting anecdote that feels relevant is Wu-Tang Clan's album Once Upon a Time in Shaolin, which was only released as a single physical copy, and no accompanying download or streaming option. That's an extreme form of artificial scarcity, but that became a part of the artwork itself.

> Wearing out of the physical medium makes music more valuable

In what way? It adds an extra monetary cost to replace the playback medium, and an environmental cost to produce that medium, but does it actually make the music itself any more valuable?

I'll bite even though I don't feel the same as the parent. Imagine a long time ago when you needed performers to get any music at all. Listening to a great musician was an unique, perhaps once in a lifetime experience. Having a limited number of playbacks is similar, makes every instance of playing more valuable in the emotional sense.

But I agree ultimately with your environmental argument.

Yep, would definitely rather see a return of musicians than plastic cassettes.

> In what way?

The answer is in your next sentence. Cost = value.

In fact, the cost can even be infinite if you know that once its fully worn out no equivalent replacement can be obtained for any amount of money (often the case if that cassette/disc issue is no longer manufactured, or if you have an emotional attachment to a particular issue).

> The answer is in your next sentence. Cost = value.

Is it though? I think music had value before we invented money, and will surely continue to do so long after society has collapsed.

I mean cost in utilitarian economical sense, if you don’t use money there’s still cost.

The worn out music may no longer be produced, and may be unlikely every to be produced.

Even if it is produced again, that is a later edition and some people like to own the first edition.

My dad's old car (a 1978 Chrysler New Yorker - beautiful vehicle) has two Dark Side of the Moon 8-tracks in it. When I asked him why he had two copies, he told me "because I wore the first one out!"

Hell of an endorsement for an album!

I went to a latin jazz show this weekend, and Arturo Sandoval played the flower song, from Carmen. He improvised a few blue notes into the melody, it was subtle, and the effect was masterful.

I wishef that they could release to music to YouTube or something, because I'd love to understand the changes that were made to the music.

If they could release it as a limited-time piece, or limited play price, thena lot more people could listen to it.

I know, I know, it's just not that simple, piracy, enshitification, and all that. But it would be really cool to hear it like that again, and a temporary release from the venue would let a lot of other people experience it, and also maybe side step some copyright issues.

Or if they released it on a cassette, and we all collectively agreed that digital music sucks…

You don't add the electrical motor noise to all your music like an instagram polaroid filter?

"as soon as mp3 arrives, i acclimated and cannot look back"

I first started listening to mp3s in the last 90s, didn't fully transition away from listening on CD until 2012, last bought some CDs just a couple months ago, and up until 4 or 5 years ago the vast majority of my music purchases were on CD.

I tell you this to emphasize that my views on digital music are the result of a long drawn-out process, which are: I've got no interest in looking back.

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