Frozen embryos are 'children,' Alabama Supreme Court rules

Apparently frozen embryos have a "better than 95% chance of surviving the thawing process" -- or looking at it the other way, they have up to a 5% chance of dying [1] -- before we even consider whether they are successfully implanted. If we accept the premise that they are human beings, would we tolerate any other action parents might electively take that put their child at a 1 in 20 chance of dying?

And that doesn't count the fact that eggs/embryos are screened before freezing, and less viable, or just genetically inferior (e.g. if the egg has inherited one of the parents' genetic disorder) eggs are discarding even before freezing.

And then there's the chance that an implanted embryo survives to birth. That's apparently about 40% -- and amazingly, worse among non-frozen embryos. So there's a better-than-50:50 chance you're killing a "human being" by engaging in in-vitro fertilization at all. [2]

   [1] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/freezing-embryos
   [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8489809/

As someone that's gone through IVF, I don't feel I really disagree with this ruling as a whole. Sure, they aren't children yet, but wrongful death still fits. For those that don't know, IVF is an arduous (and expensive) process and many couples are lucky to get one good embryo out of it. Luckily, we got more than that. Sooner is better than later as well, as far as the couple's age goes.

If our frozen embryos were destroyed due to negligence I'd be pissed as hell - and of course, our wonderful daughter wouldn't be in our lives with another hopefully to be delivered in a couple of months.

Cool. So if I take custody of a frozen embryo, I could potentially sue for part of the parents' estate? No need to ever defrost or implant it.

Free deduction for a dependent. Pile up those frozen embryos and send your taxes to zero!

Maybe we can figure out some way to attach copyright to a frozen embryo. The rights will last forever.

Would an embryo have to register for the draft (if we had that) when it was "old" enough? Can it collect welfare?

There goes the IVF industry and any cryopreservation services in Alabama (you could be held criminally liable for embryo loss now if considered a person, too much risk as a provider of either reproductive assistance services or cryopreservation).

No problem! Alabama has a safe haven drop-off law, so just leave the embryos at any fire station -- in an appropriately chilled cooler, obviously.

How literal is this meant to be? Could someone request social security numbers for frozen embryos?

This is a weird one - while normally the Alabama Supreme Court ruling on what is or isn't Children would get solidly binned in the "culture war" bucket, this feels more like a weird legal system workaround like the river being granted personhood - the case came from a couple trying to sue a fertility clinic because their embryos were destroyed by some incredibly, incredibly negligent shit on the part of the facility. I'm guessing "Wrongful Death" was the only way the couple could show sufficient harm for standing in the case, and the facility argued it couldn't apply because embryos weren't actually children, so the ruling here is most likely intended to let the couple sue the facility. I'm not even sure I oppose it - for the couple, this may well have been their last chance to have kids, so I imagine the distinction for them between this and, say, a gynecologist's negligence leading to the same result is soft.

That said, again, I get why people would maybe read more into this, and precedence is a helluva drug.

New trolly problem!!!

would you rather save a freezer full of 1000 embryo children, or one newborn baby?

I just love it when courts and legislatures in my home country declare that they would have been ok with seeing me dead because the fetus I dearly wanted implanted itself somewhere that would have killed me had I not gotten prompt, objective medical attention.

If you freeze them for 35 years can they run for president?

thought this was going to be some Roy Moore shit, but it's actually a sensible ruling that follows the expected dogshit constitutional amendment

incidentally "wandering Mobile patient" is an amusing turn of phrase

Also, knowing stories about Mobile Infirmary, this is entirely unsurprising

I would encourage anyone about to make a blithe comment about embryos being people to consider how they would feel about criminal charges against someone who murders a pregnant woman.

I'd also recommend everyone read this sentence:

>]he Wrongful Death of a Minor Act is sweeping and unqualified. It applies to all children, born and unborn, without limitation. It is not the role of this Court to craft a new limitation based on our own view of what is or is not wise public policy. That is especially true where, as here, the People of this State have adopted a Constitutional amendment directly aimed at stopping courts from excluding ‘unborn life’ from legal protection.”

...before complaining about unaccountable judiciary.

Without becoming embroiled in the politics, isn't this question entirely subjective and exactly why states have the ability to make these calls?

Wow, so can I claim them as dependents?!

If embryos are people, then there is a social duty to allow all of them to exist to the best of our ability.

Taken to the extreme, this would involve conscription of those to provide the physical birth.

That would be a horrific path for us to follow as a culture for a collection of cells that have no nervous tissue, and no capability of sentience.

There is a large number of people who believe that life begins at conception. Requiring those people to host discarded embryos would likely change their beliefs with remarkable speed.