People don't want to tip their Uber and Lyft drivers | Hacker News Reader

People don't want to tip their Uber and Lyft drivers

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22 pointsrntn68 comments

Why can’t businesses just charge enough to pay their employees adequately and eliminate tipping altogether? Tipping adds unnecessary ambiguity and degrades the customer experience.

I have no problem paying higher prices, if that’s the solution to the problem, but I find the (seemingly) increasing pervasiveness of tipping across US industries annoying and feel no obligation to tip in situations where it was not traditionally expected.

And with a structure like Uber, you could easily let drivers set their own "tip" by setting a riser to pay for in-ride amenities (WiFi, water, etc, etc).

Because that's the common argument against tips: nobody will go out of their way to provide above average service. If you think you're a better waiter, driver, experience, allow your prices to show as higher and you get the difference.

The risk you run is nobody wanting your extras, but I think that's far better than providing them and panhandling for a tip.

I really really don't want to tip Uber/Lyft drivers:

1. Taking away the hassle of thinking about the tip is one of the major advantages of the technology.

2. I don't approve of US tipping culture. It shouldn't be up to me as Joe consumer to evaluate a professional doing their job, and it's patronizing to "reward" people in this fashion.

This should all be built into base compensation. In practice I've never left a tip in any of my more than 100 rides.

> This should all be built into base compensation.

Correct.

But then the advertised price is higher than a taxi, and your pragmatism (and everyone else's) is suddenly back to being honest: it's just about your total price paid. Nothing else.

> It shouldn't be up to me as Joe consumer to evaluate a professional doing their job

Your position is...what? That it should be up to Uber(?), government(?), to...hire auditors that properly reflect the demographics of the market the driver is operating in to evaluate whether or not they do a good job with customer service, including making you feel safe etc, (which is a very wide spectrum, dependent on region!).

Let me guess: you also refuse to do star-ratings of drivers because it's "not your job" to exercise the unique opportunity you have to keep unsafe, selfish, or even hostile/creepy drivers from succeeding and continuing to use a platform to profit/take advantage of others?

Dude, performance-related pay is not our concern. People should just be paid. I think you need to step back and consider why you're so obsessed with _judging_ people in addition to them being paid? Now, if you're American, you might have a bit of unlearning to do in order to contemplate that freely because you've been told all your life that "customer service" is so important. But put that aside; why do you want to judge people and be involved in their performance-related pay? What even makes you qualified to do such a thing?

If I'm not the one qualified to judge if the care I received from a doctor, taxi driver, or barber is satisfactory, who is? You still haven't answered that.

I don't agree with PIP culture, but if the alternative is a normalized culture of paying people just for showing up, with no incentive to be helpful, then no thanks - I think that's how we've ended up with criminally ineffective "customer service" lines we deal with today.

Yes, how much care and concern, and the result of your efforts, should matter.

Is what I just wrote an American-only viewpoint?

Taxi driverand barber are less clear, but think about doctor: we’re not qualified to evaluate doctors. Sure there’s the human touch side of their work but in general specialists need to be evaluated by specialists in their field. And I think it’s rather presumptuous for you to think that taxi driving table waiting etc are so trivial that you know how to evaluate them.

Were my needs fulfilled?

It's really quite an easy analysis - one I don't trust others to handle for me.

Because, no, the current, say, medical system is not sufficient to have provided me with adequate specialists.

The current barber licensing situation, not sufficient to have provided with me all good barbers.

and yes, I have had, and known, shitty, dangerous cab/Uber drivers.

I've never said they were trivial. Please don't project.

No, quite the opposite! It's so important, the only judge that matters is the person receiving the care.

You just have this absurd American belief that the world will be improved by you evaluating people and paying them accordingly. Like most absurd American beliefs (like that members of the public should carry guns) the falseness of it can easily be established by looking to see what proportion of other cultures around the world do it also.

Because of the surcharges going to Uber and Lyft. It feels like you are already paying extra. It's not rocket science.

At least where i live (California) they classify drivers as independent contractors not employees. There was a whole prop about it which got passed and basically groundfathered them in as “businesses owners” forever. It is in fact pretty uncommon to tip contractors. Like would you tip your plumber? I’m gonna guess no

I tip my hair stylist, who's an independent contractor (mostly they rent chairs from salons rather than being direct employees). I tip babysitters.

But they can set their own price, why tip?

They are both people doing important jobs for me, in long term relationships. I want them to be happy and motivated. And over time, you get to be friends with them and want to take care of them. Honestly, if you're not tipping people like this in your life it is very suboptimal.

What about dentist office, you suggest to tip there too? Only in america…

Normally when people are friends they do nice things for each other for free. I’m gonna go ahead and say that if your “friendship” is held up by tipping you’re not really friends

I agree with all that you said save the tipping.

I'm Australian, over 60 and have never tipped.

I have voted for worker rights, supported guarenteed minimum wages, gone on strike, attended picket lines and helped out anybody I've encountered that needs some kind of assistance.

Workers should be paid sufficiently to live well, not reduced to begging for scraps tossed as a result of hold out customs from the days of slavery and servitude.

But I guess that's just a cultural thing.

I’ve tipped a gardener, a cleaner, movers, but I guess not a plumber. Also doesn’t seem like it would be too weird, though.

I've tipped the guy [maybe a licensed plumber, maybe an apprentice] who came out to clean out my storm water drain pipe in driving rain on a Sunday (on top of paying the ~$275 emergency callout fee to the company).

I've tipped every ride share driver but a couple (one who left the "meter" running for 5 miles beyond my drop off and another who completed the ride in a different car than what the Uber app showed [as a guy, I was willing to take the ride; I wouldn't have been comfortable to have my wife do that]).

AB5 or not; 1099 or not; they're doing me a service and I'm OK with tipping them for doing that service well.

> AB5 or not; 1099 or not; they're doing me a service and I'm OK with tipping them for doing that service well.

So you suggest we start tipping commercial pilots, dentists (and other healthcare professionals) and your city council workers, like say street cleaners and garbage pickup folks? Where does it end?

The money you’re paying them for said service should already be enough - it’s not a charity or friendship like some people in sibling thread are claiming (yikes) - it’s a business transaction

When these apps launched you couldn't even tip and it was like a selling point of using them. The somehow we got guilted into tipping on these apps too.

I don’t think a tip makes sense in this case because the driver is already earning money on the ride.

This is very different from a tip in a bar or a restaurant where the employee gets paid by the hour and doesn’t participate on single orders.

for ubereats , you have a chance to tip upfront which is basically a bribery since the company in California can't give their drivers a liveable wage. But at the same time,some drivers don't want to work shift. The only way forward I think is giving shifts whether 6 or 8 hours. But then drivers can't refuse riders, they will get vacation pay, etc

>for ubereats , you have a chance to tip upfront which is basically a bribery since the company in California can't give their drivers a liveable wage.

From wikipedia: "Bribery is the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official, or other person, in charge of a public or legal duty"

How is tipping upfront any way related to the above definition? Or are you just using "bribery" to mean "exchange of money I don't like"?

How is tipping upfront any way related to the above definition?

It’s not. Then again, few people would disagree with the usage above. Why is this so important to you that it’s worth being pedantic? Do you find the wording of the comment confusing?

>Why is this so important to you that it’s worth being pedantic?

Because words have meanings, and playing fast and loose with words for dramatic effect cheapens it. Next time a someone is accused of taking a "bribe", do we know it's actual corruption, or someone expressing displeasure about the transaction?

Why do you consider Wikipedia and Wikipedia only? It took 2 seconds to see a different definition that fits from my phone

> persuade (someone) to act in one’s favour, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement

How is pre-tipping illegal or dishonest?

It doesn’t have to be, you can consider it atypical bribery if you wish

Too aggressive. I wouldn’t call it a bribe. Your comment is confusing to most People. Bribing is nefarious and/or illegal. Like bribe to get out of a fine or a bribe to get some government agency to approve Something

This is a fee for service.

Your comment is confusing to most People

Not my comment.

And maybe not “most” people. I understood perfectly well what OP was saying.

Well those platforms call it a tip, not a fee for service, so they're already being dishonest and nefarious.

And I don't personally know anyone who wouldn't consider it a bribe, except for one or two pedants.

No, a fee is an upfront amount to do a task.

The fact that is it nebulous, and if you don't put a number that's considered big enough (by someone elses judgement) then you won't get your food delivered puts it beyond a "fee".

It’s bribery if the quality of service may be influenced by the size of the tip. That pretty cleanly fits your definition, no?

Paying more money for better service is bribery now? What's next, I'm "bribing" usps whenever I opt for expensive overnight service?

It should be part of their pricing model. If USPS gave minimal service, and you were informally expected to pay the delivery driver(s) more (some unspecified amount) to get better/faster service, I would also call that bribery.

It's closer to bribery than not.

Or gambling? It's the lootbox of food...

With usps you are paying more for a guaranteed service. There are standards they'll hold that delivery to. You are paying for something specific and real.

A higher pre-tip on the other hand is paying for a hope and a prayer that you get what you paid for on time and in good working order. It's not the same thing at all.

If you paid a fee for priority Uber that let you jump the queue it'd be closer to not a bribe.

>If you paid a fee for priority Uber that let you jump the queue it'd be closer to not a bribe.

Do you feel the same way about how offering a better price on craigslist gets you counterparties faster? eg. if the going price for a phone is $300, and you list at $250, you're going to get people messaging you sooner because you essentially "jumped the queue" for everyone who's looking to buy a phone.

When you post to Craigslist you ultimately are going to enter into a negotiation where you and the other party agree to price, date of exchange, product condition, etc.

With Uber you are making a one-sided negotiation in which the other party doesn't know what terms you'd like. You can pay more to potentially get better terms, but you don't know how much more to pay or how much better it will make those terms.

> A 2019 study of 40 million Uber rides found that 16% of rides received tips

> Sixty-one percent [of US adults] said they [tipped] for taxi or ride-hailing services

hmm

An explanation for the seeming discrepancy could be that the non-tippers take more rides. This would make sense, for example, if there is a population of people who take Uber very frequently (say to commute in a city) and don't usually tip. Perhaps precisely because they use the service so frequently and don't want to pay extra, or because they see the variation in driver quality and want to reserve tips for the best service.

Whereas infrequent riders (say to and from the airport) are more likely to tip universally.

Could easily be that the 39% of adults that don't tip take an outsized portion of the rides.

Both can be true at the same time.

rides ≠ rideRs

If the group that does not tip takes significantly more rides than the group that does tip, then this makes sense. It also makes sense that people who use the service more might be less likely to want to pay more for each trip (tip on top of the ride cost), whereas people who almost never use the service might be inclined to tip each time.

Also, those statistics are comparing different things. One is about Uber, the other is about all taxis and ride-sharing services.

Could it be that the first statistic relates to global rides?

I tried to find out by following the links to the study but was unsuccessful.

The link-chain from the article 404s, but the paper is relatively easy to find [1].

Appears to also be US-only. I'm assuming the same connection that other replies are mentioning - that a non-tipping minority of the rider population represents a disproportionately large majority of rides. I only found it interesting because of how easy it is to broadcast either perspective depending on the response you want. Individuals and media reports can pick and choose between "a majority of people tip" and "less than 1/6th of rides are tipped" and be factually correct either way while giving off entirely different impressions.

[1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26380/w263...

It is possible that the sixty-one percent tip for a vanishing but nonzero minority of rides.

Do people tip Uber drivers outside US ?

AFAIK it's not a common practice in my country

Not common where I live (NZ) either. In fact people commonly complain when Apps like Uber try and force us tipping culture on us.

Good. Upfront pricing and predictable wages are a good thing. People underestimate how much mobility drivers have. If nobody tips, drivers will go work for McDonalds or Walmart until either (1) tipping resumes or (2) base fares go up.

I don't tip (as much) if there's a big surge pricing, or the guy was annoying or rude in some way. Otherwise, if you look at what they're taking home that day (sometimes you can see their balance for that day on their screens), it isn't so high.

Drivers don’t keep surge pricing anymore. Goes to the platform.

$50 ride that's usually $15 during surge pricing might be a reason.

My kid tips 20% (my card) - her rides to college are short so there is an issue here with trips being cancelled by the drivers, so it is an incentive to get a trip from a regular.

20% of your total bill,

20% of the "base fare",

or 20% of the driver's cut?

A bit more as the gas prices increased - check my receipts

R40 fare R20 tip

One of the things I really like about Waymo rides is that I never need to think about leaving a tip

Can I as a customer also get a tip froma company?

I used uber and not taxia because there is none of the tipping bullshit.

I got a taxi last week and the guy didn't take my card as the machine was broken and didn't have change. I only got a taxi as the Uber area at the airport was very busy and I would have had to wait a while and probably surge charges.

In the end, the taxi was a shitty, dirty car, cost way more than I expected and cleaned out my cash. I'll be waiting next time.

Taxis and “the credit card machine is broken” is a tale as old as time. Some of the time it mysteriously fixes itself when you don’t have cash.

I can’t decide which I hate more. Taxis for always trying to scam you, or Ubers for guilting you into tipping and punishing you with a bad rider rating or lack of service if you don’t.

I have a strong aversion to ride sharing services after several encounters with dubious drivers (like one wanted to beat me coze I didn't have cash and also was unwilling to let me withdraw from an ATM, had to call the police to resolve the dispute). So fuck Uber / Lyft / Bolt, I'm taking regular taxi service, the one that requires a hard to get license so drivers have some incentive to behave if they are to keep it. Not that they can't switch sides and go ride sharing but these two worlds are like vampires and werewolves, don't usually mix.

And yes, I tip drivers, regardless if regular taxi or ride sharing, that's the decent way to behave. Otherwise get a f** bus.

I'm curious about the anecdote you shared -

1. You don't pay cash on those apps you mentioned - afaik all save a card number on file. It wouldn't make sense that you could climb into an Uber and then complain that you forgot to bring cash?

2. On ride-sharing apps, typically you as the passenger can very easily change the destination mid-ride. If you decide to swing by an ATM, you can do that in the app, and the driver's GPS is seamlessly updated. Typically you dont verbally ask the driver to take you somewhere off-route.

It sounds like you were really unreasonable in this scenario, but perhaps the cash/card situation is different where you live?

> It sounds like you were really unreasonable in this scenario

Given your unresolved questions, how can you come to this conclusion?

Because in the absence of any exculpatory information, the user described climbing into a rideshare (whose driver has every reason to expect digital payment) - and then telling the driver the ride won't actually be paid, unless the driver deviates from the app GPS. And, furthermore, not leaving the person's vehicle without police intervention.

It really doesn't even matter about the card and ATM and whatnot - if the user felt they were entitled to a free ride to the ATM, against the driver's will, to the extent that the cops needed to get involved - then the passenger is totally out of order.

> You don't pay cash on those apps you mentioned

IIRC in some countries cash is/was an option.

Well I use a local app which summons both taxis and ride sharing, I can choose which one. I also have the option to choose the payment method upfront, cash or card and I must have accidentally pressed cash although I meant card. Accidents happen, right, that's the way of life.

Anyhow upon arriving at the destination, the driver had no card reader whatsoever and I had no cash whatsoever (although I usually do precisely because money in the bank and money in the hand do make a difference here). The ATM machine was like 50 meters away and I didn't request the driver to drive me there, although I would have paid for that too. Just walk there, he can wait for me and I'll compensate his time anyway. He started yelling, threatened to beat me, wouldn't let me go get money so I started evaluating my options of smacking him. Fortunately it was HIM who said he'll call the police, which gave me relief and wholeheartedly said "please do!". Which police, upon arrival did nothing but get my ID card and wait until I walked to the ATM, withdraw money, pay the nutbag, tip him even (!!!!) and then return my ID. Which is precisely how the whole thing should have went were not for the weirdo.

Bonus, next day I discovered I was banned from the taxi application. Getting in touch with a human operator was a pain in the ass, found the asshole driver reported me as "not having paid". Which was a gross lie, unfortunately it didn't occur to me to get the police car number or officer's IDs so I have a witness. And apparently that was all it took, one driver reporting me, doesn't matter the long history of using the app (and paying), suspended without any investigation, confirmation or at least notifying me why the fuck I suddenly I can't log in. Fucking pieces of shit corporations!

Anyhow, there was some procedure apparently that if the "guilty by default without proof or warning" made a recourse, they would contact the driver. Which driver never replied so they re-instated my login credentials. I hate them deeply to this day, fortunately the corporation behind the app went bust and I've replaced it with another one.

I have no delusions anymore on the viciousness of the system, I'm only good as long as I pay and they'd fuck me without warning on the first imagined whim. But there's no alternative so I hafta use these apps.

Oh, and thank you fellow HNers for screwing (downvoting) me a second time for sharing a story on how getting screwed by Kafkian corporations made me reconsider my options of using their services. You see, the software and systems that apply the "presumption of guiltiness" is precisely a reflection of people like you, hell is other people!

> that's the decent way to behave.

That's what a multi-billionaire companies like Uber want you to think. The world has plenty of countries where people don't tip their taxi drivers and it doesn't make them indecent.

>dubious drivers (like one wanted to beat me coze I didn't have cash and also was unwilling to let me withdraw from an ATM, had to call the police to resolve the dispute).

Weird, usually the anecdotes to this effect are for taxis, not rideshare services.

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