Why Some of Apple's Biggest Fans Are Returning Their Vision Pros
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
Dropping $3500+tax off the production budget and double-dipping for a second video/thinkpiece? That's irresistible for a content creator. So now we're getting a spike in "Vision Pro return" memes.
Most people naturally tend to emulate popular trends. They'll never say that's the reason, of course.
There's also just a classic thundering herd effect. There was a big spike as people tried it out, so there's a spike in returns on a ~2 week lag.
At industry standard return rates 2000 returns would be normal.
Easy to find enough people to interview.
Then it will be a $30 billion a year business for Apple.
Carmack was right. Headgear needs to come down to no more than swim goggle size to be successful, and down to eyeglass size to go mainstream. I was expecting eyeglass-sized displays from Apple. This thing is as clunky as everyone else's VR headsets.
This is the clunkiest headset Apple will ever release. See the iPhone 1. Apple will probably also move down-market with a future "Apple Vision S" product, deleting the front screen and further slimming the size.
From “spatial computer” (Apple’s first new platform they’ve described as a “computer” since the Mac) to the productivity-focused feature set to the pricing (AVP is on par with a well-spec’d MBP), clear Apple sees this as primarily an evolution of the laptop.
Meta's doing the same thing, but just from the other direction.
Apple's feels too much like a polished devkit, not like a consumer-ready product.
Pretty sure that's why it's $3500 and has Pro in the title.
This is not a device for consumers.
Their end goal is both the same. Meta is approaching it building a broad-appeal consumer device using tech that is cheap now, iterating over time to build something more capable.
Apple's made something with some better technical specs, with the costs they bring, ditching broad appeal. In a very different way, it seems as if Apple is going to ride out this platform and continue to iterate.
Vision is no different: it’s just very difficult to build tiny, low power, ultra-high resolution displays. Then actually driving these displays is very difficult to do in a tiny package, due to the computing power requirements.
The rationale for embiggening the iPhone (screen size and ergonomics) doesn't apply to headsets.
That's missing the point. My comment wasn't about rationales, it was about the difficulty of miniaturization. The fact that the iPhone got larger -- and that consumers demanded a larger phone -- took all the pressure off the miniaturization program. That will not be the case for the VP.
We all know there is going to be next gen which will be marginally better and marginally pricier. It will still not be enough to 'be there'. At that point the market for wanna-shop-this will be fully saturated. Good luck with that.
The only way to solve all this mess would be to have killer apps. So far what we have seen that even 3 trillion company can't put together much in this space quickly enough, so I am not holding my breath. And literally same problems are with other headsets released even 5 years ago - there is simply not good-enough and enough of content to make people buy it and keep using it. Apple must have seen this from 10 miles too and pushed hard, but reviews politely say all the same thing. Almost all folks here with earlier VR headsets write how after initial wow faded it collects dust in cellar now.
Me, I prefer watching movies from 4m on huge screen, the social aspect with family and simple freedom of movement in more cinema experience is great. For gaming these days PC monitors offer much better visual experience than even these VR goggles, over 40" high refresh say oled with good ie Sennheiser headphones and you are as deep as you want to be, and for many games (that I like to play if I have some time), mouse is simply a superior controller to anything else.
iPad 2 was so good it was produced and sold for years and years and re-packaged into the first Mini iPad.
I’m out for this generation of goggles, but hope we see a similarly-huge leap in quality for the second gen.
This thing is heavier than a Quest 3 and doesn't even have a battery in it.
Apple has almost always been more form over function. Premium materials and slim, shiny looks over ergonomics. See the Apple mouse.
I think the last product Apple ever made that cared about ergonomics was the sunflower iMac G4, the best Mac Apple ever released, then the downfall started where everything needed to be unnecessarily thin and lacking in any adjustments for the sake of thinness and minimalism that look good in a white sterile showroom but suck at daily usage.
Meanwhile, I probably would have left it plugged in all the time if not for that, out of battery-anxiety from using crappy rechargeable accessories that charge slowly and discharge fast.
I didn’t need to be willing to inconvenience myself because it was never inconvenient.
It's fine if it works for you, but more broadly it's not very practical, and the reason for that is the long running Apple disease of form over function.
They created many great machines in that time but also misguided junk. In my view the "magic" mouse falls into the later category.
But maybe try something other than an ad hominem or "my n=1 survey shows..." argument next time to be more convincing.
Have you used one? I also thought it was a laughable mis-step, until I used one. Apple does dumb shit all the time, but that one was fine.
It's just nice to look at. But there's a reason neither Logitech, nor Microsoft nor any other self respecting peripheral manufacturer copied or at least imitated that design, and it's not patents.
It's just awful and if it weren't made by Apple, nobody would be praising it.
The Magic Trackpad is an unparalleled multitouch input surface. The Magic Mouse is just the worse way to use a pointing device.
Or sometimes people find a larger shape more ergonomic. Depends on the person and how they mouse, I think.
I had one of the wireless Apple mice at work for a while and it was a really good mouse. The “dumb” port (I agreed with this assessment before using one!) was never, ever any problem at all. At home, I use Logitech, because I also game with it and am willing to compromise a (very) little on its suitability for work to not have multiple mice.
You want dumb design shit from Apple that’s actually inconvenient, losing USB-A even on Pro devices is up there. Not migrating iPhones and iPads to USB-C at the same time as going “all in” on it for laptops. The touchbar. The puck mouse. Examples abound.
[edit] oh man, cases that slightly zap you with electricity under certain circumstances. Cases with edges a little too sharp because that’s the aesthetic they wanted. “Holding it wrong”. I continue to regard the loss of the home button as a huge usability regression. Cables that fray very quickly if repeatedly placed under strain, because they wanted them to be very thin.
There are so many examples of actual problems with Apple stuff.
[EDIT EDIT] OMG those very dumb first-gen pencils with the easily-breakable male port and the dumb, highly-losable cap for it. And you needed an also-highly-losable tiny adapter if you wanted to charge it with, you know, a charging cable.
The aluminium is about 2mm thick and also helps to dissipate heat.
Replacing it with plastic would save you a few grams for a hotter unit.
> The product can make users feel isolated from family and friends.
Which is my point with all those devices. The only ones that could work are in scifi.
The contact lenses in Rainbows End https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_End_(Vinge_novel)
The glasses in Dennoh Coil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den-noh_Coil
The original Google Glasses were closer to something that people could wear together other people not wearing them. There was a lot of ruckus about the camera and privacy violations. The VP also have a camera but nobody seems to be worried about it. Maybe 10 years of ubiquitous smartphone cameras made that argument moot.
Meta sold 20 million units of the Quest.
It's just nonsense that we need some futuristic technology to make the category popular.
At the same time, I am not interested in extolling its virtues beyond saying: try it. Maybe buy it and try it at home with your MacBook. Maybe you’ll get it, maybe it won’t be for you. What does it matter what others think?
Have an ipad pro too, any integration there?
Oh neat it's got moonlight?
As for me, I wouldn’t replace my desktop with this personally (albeit I might get rid of my monitor) but it would very likely replace my MacBook Air at some point.
I think that covers both possible product outcomes.
Macs fared a bit better.
Let me extend my statement a bit then: if Apple doesn't press the self-obsolete-now button, then it will be a great relic.
I am absolutely thrilled by what I hear about the VP, but I am also quite sure that I want to wait for the first update before spending a lot of money on it. Because the hardware will be refined and of course, the software improved.
No doubt most of the clowns walking around in public wearing these things were paid influencers. There's probably a niche for something like this, but it's not ready to be a general consumer product.
Could just be influencers making cool content for money (doesn't have to be paid) or people testing the limits of the pass through for fun. Even though this product has no use in my opinion, it's a cool product.
I would have a returned a first generation ipad as well (I did try it out on release day but after playing with it for 15 minutes I knew it wasn't for me)
Personally, I'd feel bad to buy one and return it a week later - I'd feed better to pay a restocking fee, because I want to try one out, but don't want to keep it..
I've done a number of hacks to get it to work, but using my Android phone as a Bluetooth keyboard is the killer app. Google keyboard swype plus the better Google voice recognition makes it usable. Also, I cut off the fabric of a backup light shield, so you can use it with peripheral vision. That's pretty decent for chores.
Give it a few weeks for bored people to start making apps, figure out how to limit YouTube on this thing so you're not turning into a wire head. I try to watch my 80" TV now, and it just feels too small and restricted.
This is just the news being news. If you're savy, and if you have a MBP, and especially if you're a developer, and especially if you have the money, it's legit. It's only going to get better. My thought was, better spend the money now and experience a revolution than wait a year for it to be even better, but too afraid to drop that amount of money when the second one is about to come out.
No really, in that sense you want to jump in just after a significant change, to get the most out of the ‘new’, now. And they will never be a better time for that than on the first release. (Future changes being typically more diminishingly incremental as time goes on, at least relative to that point in time.)
At least that’s my take the argument.
As much as I’d like it to be, I don’t think there is a mass rejection of the Vision Pro happening.
* The headset is too heavy, or too uncomfortable to use for extended periods of time.
* The software was lacking. Lack of video content, lack of apps, lack of 'shared experiences'.
I think that as soon as a headset is good enough for software engineers to 'live in' we will see software explode for it.