More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. Sort of like an expensive blender you were so excited to get, you imagined making super fruit smoothies every morning. Let's see how AVP fares in this regard.
More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. Sort of like an expensive blender you were so excited to get, you imagined making super fruit smoothies every morning. Let's see how AVP fares in this regard.
What I love most about this comment is how it caused me to reflect on what I use daily and get some amount of joy from.
When it comes to Apple products in particular I use an Apple Studio display at home, I use it for 10hours per day, every day, and honestly I have no complaints, it's probably one of the best bits of technology I use daily.
However, it's completely unsexy and has (at least on paper) extremely stiff competition. Not only that it was maligned by the tech media upon release.
Yet, it just subtlely benefits my life because the speakers are excellent, the webcam is servicable (the novelty of the fact it tracks you never truly wears off) and the size/pixel density is great.
It's weird that I'm waxing poetic like this about such a boring device, but that's kinda my point, your comment made me reflect about all the little tech around me that I use every day that just sort of shifted into the background. Quietly doing its job excellently.
Until/unless Apple does fractional scaling in a way that doesn’t really need pixel doubling to work, I will insist on a 5K display for a 27” monitor and the ASD really is the best game in town.
But at the same time, I see the LG is down to $999 (I suspect it’ll be discontinued soon if it isn’t already) and it’s debatable that the studio display is $600 better. It’s definitely $300 better though.
That said, it is increasingly more difficult to buy the LG. So it’s become less of a choice.
It's mind blowing, I don't wanna reach for the low-hanging quips here but it really is like an Apple iCult type of vibe
Women love apple products, but if you look at who is splurging on multiple high end apple computers with multiple monitors it's gotta be 95% male.
The 27" 5K Studio Display is in a weird category, where they actually have zero competitors. On paper, there's the LG Ultrafine, but I have yet to see one available for purchase in EU (I've seen "in stock", but not actually available), not to even mention seeing one in person. So basically you don't really have a choice.
- Apple's software (particularly macOS) is extremely high quality. Best game in town.
- Their hardware is also high quality, but it is often overpriced.
- You must use their hardware to get the best experience using their software.
- Therefore, people might end up buying, say, the Apple XR display or AirPods Max even though they are overpriced compared to other monitors/headphones, because it gives you a better experience using macOS.
I am a pretty huge Apple fan but I think this is pretty unfortunate, not gonna lie -- it kills me a little that macOS doesn't look sharp on my 4K monitor. But it isn't an iCult, it's just that the cheaper thing doesn't work as well with macOS.
Luckily this "wasn't my first monitor", so I quickly returned it and went back to Dell that's always been OK enough so I don't ever have to pay attention to which monitor or display setting I'm using.
My husband uses an iMac (27” 5k display running @2x) and I struggle to do anything at that resolution.
There are only two 5K displays on the market that can render macOS at Retina resolution on a 27" panel: this one and the LG Ultrafine, which isn't that much cheaper. My last monitor was a 27" LG QD-OLED 144Hz 4K display. I LOVED that display, but text wasn't sharp because of the Retina resolution problem.
I also have a semi-professional webcam setup and external speakers, so those being built-in does nothing for me.
I just want macOS to support variable scaling like Windows has for, what, 15 years at least?
Anything in-between is rendering at a larger resolution and scaling it back down for the display, resulting in a non-pixel-perfect image.
Your shop Mac is rendering the UI at 5120 × 2880, then squishing that down for the Acer display. Which, apart from being more graphically demanding, ends up blurry and aliased.
What Windows does is actually just changing the pixel dimensions of the UI elements (in steps of 10% I think?), which Apple has never done.
I’ve tried to adopt MacBooks twice over the last three years and both times this has been the dealbreaker for me. I was flabbergasted that MacOS didn’t have better support for it.
No way to really fix it, it's just another Mac shortcoming. Using resolution to scale the UI is not a compromise, it's a mediocre workaround.
To be clear, I criticize the hell out of the company on things that I think are truly bad. Their app store policies are a disaster. I get that gamers want framerates over resolution. I'm not a gamer and want the other thing.
For my money, Windows is a terrible operating system but it embarrasses Mac and Linux thoroughly in this regard.
[1]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-complete-list-of-27...
There’s also the Samsung S9 now.
Incredible for coding.
Although, I have a strict policy of not sharing my AirPods, or let it connect to anything other than my iPhone to make sure I don’t get into the mess of “figure out which device it auto connects to” etc.
- my personal iPhone
- my work iPhone
- my personal MacBook
- my work MacBook
And not once have I ever had to worry about it being connected to the wrong device, it seems to just keep track of all the devices around and everything "just works"
In mind these are AirPod pro 2s
I bought an AVP on day one to be used -exclusively- as a monitor extender for coding.
It's untenable.
The only way I could avoid significant neck/back pain from the weight was to sit in a reclining chair. That wouldn't be a bad coding setup, but my eye strain was pretty significant, too.
I ended up returning mine.
This is a necessary 1.0 to build out the app ecosystem, etc. but it's absolutely not ready for full-time use.
Lying on a bed would also do the trick.
It hurts (and wake me up) in just a few minutes if I happen to fall sleep with my regular glasses on.
It's not even scratched. I have no idea what it's made out of but it's super impressive. I try not to think about because of whatever the biosafety standards were back then... but the lack of visible damage gives me hope not much of it has been ingested at least.
But I have a plastic VR headset and I'm pretty sure an impact bad enough to damage the plastic care is also bad enough to damage the electronics, which are going to be way more costly to repair.
I'd take a plastic headset personally assuming it was lighter. Anything to save weight in this product category.
A lot of Apples decision seems to make more sense when considering how incredibly powerful (and thus hot) it is. The external battery pack (which is a 3 cell 13V pack btw) is definitely a consequence of that, they supposedly have some of the power electronics in there which helps move a bit of the heat generating stuff away from the face.
Imagine if you wanted to make a powerful headset without a fan. How would you even do that in plastic? You’d definitely want to transport the heat out to the perimeter or front, and plastic would just not be the most suitable for that.
So maybe that’s the path they’re looking towards? They might eventually be able to get rid of the fan with better chip technology, without compromising on compute, but then they need some metal to shed the heat from.
Perhaps the development they’re doing with titanium on iPhone is also a step in that direction. Letting them use metal without as much of a weight penalty.
I can't speak for the Apple Vision Pro, I'd love to try one, to be honest. But I can agree with your comment.
Such has been my experience with the two headsets I own - the Meta Quest 2, which I think is really great and serves many purposes, and the PSVR 2 headset, which is phenomenal for gaming, but pretty much useless for anything else.
Both headsets have had a short-lived "wow" factor to them, without a doubt, but sadly, the novelty tends to wear off within weeks. I haven't used my Quest 2 since early 2023 (I think) and the PSVR 2's last use was for a game called Pavlov, which is simply mind-blowing, despite which, I think the hassle of headsets is problematic. For real gaming I go back to couch gaming with the Xbox or PS5, and for computer things I use computers.
Funny thing is, I keep meaning to do more with the PSVR 2 but now it's actually so dusty that it puts me off, it needs a full cleaning at this stage :).
Edit: Meta Quest -> Meta Quest 2
There's zero on the Quest 2/3 because it's a mobile device and it's not up to it and at least in my experience the link is not up to it either.
I'm not saying there are not some good experiences there. Several rhythm games are fun, a couple of games designed for low-power mobile devices. But the fully immersive high quality graphics games are so few an far between. If there were more I'd keep playing.
Still, it would be pretty darned cool to be able to take something even half as good on the road in a package that will easily fit in a backpack!
I am entirely done with Apple and will not be buying any more of their products, but I look forward to the competition that AVP will foster.
That's part of the problem framing the AVP as a system for 2D floating screens. 2D screens are good at what they do. 360 degree 3D with Six Degrees of Freedom is a completely different surface area and we are still at the Horseless Carriage stage of development of that affordance space. There are a few experiments in what's possible [1] but, for the most part, if all you throw at these devices is a floating screen then the novelty wears off and we have the conversations we are having in this thread instead of thinking about what more is possible.
[1] VR Immersive IDE: https://primitive.io/
For the some niche things, fantastic, it's unique. Feeling inside a 3d scene, two handed manipulations of 3d objects... it's the hang-glider jumping off a mountain which no horse can do. If you currently render something in 3d on a monitor, VR might help and some new things like training for physical tasks might be cool too.
The hang-glider just isn't useful for commuters getting from A to B which in this case, is office work. It's text, it's numbers, it's organisation, it's communication. Throwing things around in 3d is just a gimmick that will likely slow you down. Moving your head or waving your hands around are not better ergonomically than a good monitor, keyboard and seating. Using a keystroke to flip the app/tabs in your field of view is more comfortable than turning to look at your wall.
> VR Immersive IDE
This is like every 3d scifi UX you could see in compsci department since the 90s. I get it, everyone wants to create that cool looking scene from Prometheus but sadly no-one wants 4 lines of code exploded into a huge visual call-graph with dozens of nodes, interconnections everywhere and translucent text. VR won't change that. No-one really wants to drive around a city to find their files in a Gibson either.
For VR, you don't want to look at text that's far away, you don't want to look at text at weird angles... so what is a 3d environment adding? The ideal is to bring perfectly sized legible text at a comfortable focal distance into your gaze, that's what an automobile will need to do.
i’m very much so a bit easily distractable and i do tend to wander and move locations while i work at home. i actually has thought the vision pro was tethered completely and 100% dependent on another apple device but i guess not entirely? that would be appealing for me to have very light work space that moves with me for similarly light work (chats, emails, etc)
looks a bit too goofy for me for public use but i’m just shy) but the article did help me see a vision for using the vision pro. better than apples ads
What is your reason? I am genuinely curious. I used to think that using open devices (Linux, GrapheneOS) gives me the convenience of being able to do everything I want. But over time I came to realize that Apple optimizes their devices for one happy path they envision, and if you don’t stray off that happy path (e.g. on iPhone you cannot sideload, can’t have background jobs), the convenience can be even greater than the possibilities an open design offers (native terminal, root access in Android). It is a local maxima. Thus I own an iPhone. On the computer side I own a PC, but that’s because Linux isn’t yet fully supported on Macs. What is your reasoning?
So far hearing vastly mixed reviews about its “balance” on the users head - when I wear night vision goggles or similar devices I have to use a counter mass at the back of the helmet to make it comfortable. It seems the AVP doesn’t have such a balancing weight?
It would be a great shame if a secure, well designed, easy to use computer loaded with a custom-built, well supported unix-like distro gets trashed because the company that makes it is always trying to "innovate." I don't know if there's much left to innovate in the computer world, there is only so much you can do with ones and zeros. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs.
Jobs is dead, he will never come back, and Apple will never be Apple under Jobs again. They should just try to be like the IBM of their space...just there, doing what they do best. An institution, a monolith, but not a "disruptor," as if there are any of those left.
Not that I’ve found. Maybe on individual features, but not as a whole product.
I bought my first pair of AirPods very close to their initial release and everyone looked at me like I was an idiot for wearing such an ugly and expensive device that couldn’t really do anything better than a $20 pair of earbuds. Do you remember everyone making fun of them at the announcement? It wasn’t until around 2 years later that AirPods were widely worn and accepted.
I’m not sure Vision Pro will go through the same adoption curve, but I am not confident that it won’t happen by late v2 or v3.
What do we think of people who sit around with a VR headset on all day? We think, usually, that they are anti-social, that they are afraid of going outside, that they want to trap themselves in a world that generates and serves their fantasies. How does a company which makes so much of their money off of people associating their products with high social status break into a market that appears to be solely for those who stand on the other end of the continuum?
The rational is contradictory: technology (according to the Silicon Valley playbook) profits by transforming the world into a place of further alienated and isolated individuals whose entire lives are shaped by and for tech companies which only exist to exploit them; and yet, such a world, in its total form, could never appear, since people could not work and live in that world unless they participated in it collectively, at some level. Phenomenologically, we can't view this move as anything more than an extreme error of judgement, a move from a post-jobs apple that doesn't seem to understand the magic of great design, the element of the sublime that technology can create--but it would always have to be this way, since the philosophy would never overcome the profit-motive.
Its why I said that computers can only go so far. We're at the end of the rope of the transformational power of technology, and everybody knows it. The world will not change on the whim of the market, the market will just constrict and eventually kill us all.
On top of things like much longer lasting battery, much better support for advanced HD bluetooth codecs (I can plug them into anything like some cheap TVs anywhere). But to me overall sound quality is still #1 reason to invest into premium quality.
Of course then somebody from A team comes with 'but they integrates greatly with my iphone' argument, which is probably true but not that relevant to above. My Senns integrate effortlessly with my Samsung phone/tv/laptops too, thats kind of baseline in 2024.
I have high quality headphones and IEMs, the headphones I use if I’m _really_ listening to music, maybe a couple of times a week. The IEMs have been in drawer for months without use. The wireless headphones I use every day all day. It’s convenience.
Being tethered to a phone or computer with a wire that pulls, catches, and makes rubbing noise through your ears is truly an awful relic of the past.
Man, the amount of history rewriting that happens in tech world is actually insane.
Louis Rossman literally made his career out of showcasing how shit apple laptops have been through the years. The evidence is all there. I dunno if people are just willfully ignorant or are actually just lying.
Not even that, apparently many customers are already returning them[1]. Most of the hype, as usual, is tech reviewers who want to stay relevant.
Early adopters will naturally chase any and every opportunity to make use of them, but in the coming months as novelty wears off, more issues arise, you get the (The ecosystem is just not ready yet)™ and most will be listed on the secondhand market.
[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro...
That said, I tried one on at the Apple Store the other day and the immersive stuff was really cool and I’d like to see more of it. But I think it makes sense to wait for the amount of content to increase and the price to come down.
I don't regret the purchase; I did not expect it to change my life, and I've actually had my skepticism about spatial computing turned around. I hope there is a future where we can do the same things in a less physically cumbersome way.
The hard part is being able to know when that inflection point comes. But I think there's a very good chance that 10 years from now, it's already behind us.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CCS71K6P?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_...
We've grown so accustomed to viewing technology as a steady progression of improvements that it seems natural that the thing that Apple is pushing today will be universal in 10 years, but there's no guarantee of that, and there are reasons to be skeptical that we'll look back at this as the next big leap.
For myself, I'm keeping my eye out for technology that is less intrusive into the rest of my life, not more immersive.
Maybe when they can shoot photons directly into my cornea without an intrusive set of goggles that take me out of the real world.
I've not used a laptop (or computer) at a desk for decades, I prefer lying down, which works really well.
I do wish there was something between a laptop and a phone though. Interfaces need to improve or innovate, but I don't think VR headsets are the answer. I haven't even touched on the nausea.
With AVP, Apple is taking a bet that the accessory nature of previous attempts is why this product category failed and so they're trying to embed the compute and make it wireless.
Unfortunately for utopian visions of VR goggles, we're running up against the limit on how small computers can be, so the idea of a standalone headset as light as Bigscreen VR is essentially science fiction at this point. Not to say it won't happen, but if that's what it'll take for this product category to take off then your optimism is misplaced.
Perhaps something along the lines of zapping the back of the eyeballs with lasers is the answer.
Even after 36 years of wearing glasses (current ones weight barely 20 gram), they still bother me, and I fiddle with them constantly.
For instance we've seen the arrival of movies and tv, books became moving visual content, games expanded from boards to immersive experiences etc. But the lower dimension media never disappeared nor significantly got irrelevant. We're effectively reading more words per day than any of the previous generation, podcasts are booming, web comics etc. are thriving.
TV and movies were just an addition to the media landscape, I see AR and VR in the same light.
My VR headsets don't see much usage outside of simracing which I'd consider a hobby more than just gaming. So my point is that, "working" might present that same routine which demos/gaming/facehugger yt with low return on novelty.
We programmers are quite the outsiders, and sometimes its hard for us to understand how others see computers.
It's better to be patient before jumping to conclusions, this goes for first impressions or what we think it's gonna happen.
After a while (and not a long one) you develop a serious usability bias since you can intuit what a program is doing and how best to interact with it.
The longer you work in software, the harder it is to accurately imagine how a non programmer uses a computer.
That’s why the classic “only users could cause this error” jokes exist.
My partner works as a medical research assistant. They had filled data into a huge spreadsheet in a software I think was called IBM SSES or something along those lines. Basically an excel spreadsheet, with hundreds of columns and tens of thousands of rows.
One of the analyses they wanted to run wasn't working correctly so she was tasked with filling in 0s in place of empty cells. She was expecting to spend 2-3 weeks doing this. She mentioned it to me, I've never seen this software before in my life but it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to do three weeks of manual work instantly. Just googled it and followed some instructions.
Being able to understand software is a useful skill. We should find ways to bring the average person up to speed, help them understand what computers can do so they too can see a task like that and be like "there's no way the software doesn't have an easier way to do that" instead of wasting time doing pointless busywork.
This is one way that you can design your software - follow existing conventions so that people's existing knowledge is useful for understanding your software.
The alternative can be summarized as "not doing that" and personally I don't see that solving any problems. It just means people have to learn it from scratch instead. And it's not like anyone actually reads manuals and such.
Famously, there was a shoe designer who was hired on the BOTW team. The fresh perspective keeps Nintendo games from falling into idiosyncrasies, which is part of the reason children and adults can just walk up and play most Nintendo games and have immediate without needing prior gaming experience.
I think it’s valuable to have non technical designers and QAs for that reason.
Sure the fresh perspective fades after a while, but it’s still valuable AND gives us in tech a reason to hire those not in tech.
The vast majority of normal people's compute tasks for work could be done on an iPad with a keyboard. The vast majority of their compute tasks for play just require a smartphone. 3D modeling is already a huge exception to the norm in that it needs serious compute power and in that people already often use specialized equipment for it, and to top it off it's a task that is actually hampered by using a 2D projection on a flat screen.
Most tasks are more like coding than they are like 3D modeling.
Everything is more exciting when it’s novel. That’s part of the fun of consumer electronics, games, movies, etc.
You can easily code on Quest 3 if you really wanted to do AR/VR, and could do it on Quest Pro as well a year ago. While its true that Vision does offer better resolution, lets not pretend that people who are trying the Vision Pro have significant experience with AR/VR headsets, chasing the ability to work anywhere. Its brand fanboyishness at its core: "Apple made therefore its good and usefull".