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Comment by Zelphyr | Hacker News Reader

Agreed. It's amazing how much of a head start OpenAI appears to have over everyone else. Even Microsoft who has access to everything OpenAI is doing. Only Microsoft could be given the keys to the kingdom and still not figure out how to open any doors with them.

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Microsoft doesn’t have access to OpenAI’s research, this was part of the deal. They only have access to the weights and inference code of production models and even then who has access to that inside MS is extremely gated and only a few employees have access to this based on absolute need to actually run the service.

AI researcher at MSFT barely have more insights about OpenAI than you do reading HN.

I didn't realize that. Thank you for the clarification.

This is not true. Microsoft have a perpetual license to all of OpenAI's IP. If they really wanted to they could get their hands on it.

Yeah but what's in the license? It's not public so we have no way of knowing

Microsoft said that they could continue OpenAI's research with no slowdown if OpenAI cut them off by hiring all OpenAI's people, so from that statement it sounds like they have access.

I promise you this isn't true.

No. They have early access. Example: MSFT was using Dall-e Exp (early 3 version) in PUBLIC, since February of 2023.

In the same month, they were also using GPT4 in public - before OpenAI.

And they had access to GPT4 in 2022 (which was when they decided to create Bing Chat, now called Copilot).

All the current GPT4 models at MSFT are also finetuned versions (literally Creative and Precise mode runs different finetuned versions of GPT4). It runs finetuned versions since launch even...

Many people say the same about Google/DeepMind.

Eh. MSFT owns 49% of OpenAI. Doesn't really seem like they need to do much except support them.

Except they keep trying to shove AI into everything they own. CoPilot Studio is an example of how laughably bad at it they are. I honestly don't understand why they don't contract out to OpenAI to help them do some of these integrations.

Every company is trying to shove AI into everything they own. It's what investors currently demand.

OpenAI is likely limited by how fast they are able to scale their hiring. They had 778 FTEs when all the board drama occurred, up 100% YoY. Microsoft has 221,000. It seems difficult to delegate enough headcount to all the exploratory projects of MSFT and it's hard to scale headcount quicker while preserving some semblance of culture.

They don't own 49% of OpenAI. They have capped rights to 49% of OpenAI's profits.

Apparently all the rumors weren't true then, my mistake.

I don't think what you're saying is correct though, either. All the early news outlets reported 49% ownership:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI#:~:text=Rumors%20of%20t...

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/23/23567448/microsoft-openai...

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-antitrust-regulator-cons...

https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/23/microsoft-invests-billions...

The only official statement from Micorosft is "While details of our agreement remain confidential, it is important to note that Microsoft does not own any portion of OpenAI and is simply entitled to share of profit distributions," said company spokesman Frank Shaw.

No numbers, though.

Do you have a better source for numbers?

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