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Comment by stavros | Hacker News Reader

Why do you need 120 Hz for retro titles? Also, what's BFI?

You need 120hz minimum to be able to do BFI for a title pumping out at 60hz.

BFI stands for "Black Frame Insertion" and it enhances motion resolution in LCD/OLED/Sample and Hold displays by inserting a black frame or blackout between regular frames. This has the result of reducing motion blur by shortening the time each frame is visible, making fast-moving content appear sharper and clearer.

It effectively mimics in a way older CRT monitors, improving the perception of motion. Which for me is huge, because I still game on CRT's on the regular and LCD's abysmal handling of motion is a major detriment to me of my enjoyment of such things, especially for titles that were designed and produced for displays that had much clearer motion.

It's a niche use case i'll admit, and i'd never claim otherwise, and it's not for everybody. But its funny that without that capability, id trade it in for an OLED deck tomorrow.

how does LCD with bfi compare to OLED without? I'd think that the OLED might not need bfi since the pixel response is so much better, but I'm not sure.

It's night and day in BFI's favor. Though BFI + OLED is even better still! (I have a 240hz desktop OLED I use for the same thing hahah.)

Sadly OLED is not able to escape the problems inherent to sample and hold displays when it comes to the blurring of motion.

Old mate Mark from Blurbusters (An expert in the field) does a far better job of explaining why then I can:

https://blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

That's very interesting, thanks! How does an LCD with BFI compare to a CRT?

I think the best way to put it is that currently, despite their drawbacks, BFI/Display strobing is about as close as we can currently get, but it's not perfect. They both come with drawbacks. Especially with the BFI im using (which is built into retroarch.)

It gets you really close, but not all the way to the motion clarity of a CRT. It's not at the point yet where I would remove my CRT's from my desk, but another few years of brightness increases and resolution increases in <27" and under OLED's, and I could be almost convinced to finally retire them.

Funnily enough VR headsets might be some of the best displays for retro due to their ability to do really good low persistance strobing without something called crosstalk.

Another drawback I forgot to mention is that if you couldnt perhaps tolerate 60hz on a CRT, you may find the same with BFI/strobing, so again, it rules it out for a lot of people.

Software based BFI with equal 16ms on, 16ms off sounds horrible for flicker

Normally it’s closer to 25% off and that is still uncomfortable to view compared to plasma or CRT, unless you are blessed with a golden visual system in your brain

If you're looking to simulate a CRT that's not a problem because 50/60 Hz CRTs all had horrible flicker. We were just used to it.

If you see one now you'll see how bad it is.

Simulating CRT on a smeary 120 Hz LCD doesn't sound good to me.

Only the latest super high refresh OLEDs are approaching that capability and the software is not done. Nobody is simulating the rays right now. Pretty niche, so progress is slow.

That’s simply not an issue. I’m not trying to simulate a CRT, I’m trying to avoid nausea inducing sample and hold blur. Which BFI does a good enough job of. Sample and hold displays including OLED are to me just both smeary messes at anything below 240hz.

I also use BFI with my OLED and sure, BFI at 240hz is better but it’s not available to me in a handheld.

I don’t perceive any flicker at all, not even on my CRTs and never have. But oddly, I found motion blur induced by sample and hold displays induces nausea in my system. I’m really sensitive to it for some reason.

If you like retro I'd really recommend giving EmuVR a try. It's really amazing. Especially the CRT simulation. You can sit so close you can see the subpixels.

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