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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

I can’t find it but one of my favourite designs was a switch with a “light” beside it that lit up when the state was “on.”

The best thing was that it also solved the latency of an async operation. You’d click the switch which toggled, and then some moment later the light came on. It felt incredibly satisfying and gave confidence that yes, this interaction has done something.

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Without seeing the design in question, I think this still demonstrates the ambiguity the post is discussing. Is the icon what will happen, or what is currently happening? Is it the state, or is it the action? Maybe this particular design was unambiguous, but the description of it isn't.

If the light is beside the switch (rather than being the switch) then I'd say it clearly and unambiguously indicates the current state of whatever the switch operates?

(A light also has the advantage of being a skeuomorph - much as those are now out of fashion - we all know how to interpret indicator lights in the real world.)

> A light also has the advantage of being a skeuomorph

Unless you’re my TV and it’s completely backwards for some reason.

The standby light on a TV in on for standby and off when viewing because a) it could be distracting and annoying for the extra LED to be shining while viewing in a darkened room, and b) the "on" state should be pretty obvious because of the stuff on the screen.

And also, putting the TV in standby mode is an offense punishable by a denial of darkness attack.

In electronic music instruments (which derived interfaces from electronics lab equipment) it's quite intuitive there's a switch with a light on next to it the next state is off and the light switches off.

> I can’t find it but one of my favourite designs was a switch with a “light” beside it that lit up when the state was “on.”

So when I revisit that page after a long time and see that the light is lit, does it mean that the state is currently ON or does it mean that the state will change to ON when I click it? How can I tell this by instantly looking at the lit light?

On is active.

Just like most devices with signal lights — which have been that way for decades. Historically, the lights are signaling power being supplied.

It's also quite common to have a light indicator that goes away when the device is turned on. TVs often do this - they have an indicator LED to show that they are plugged in, but turn that LED off when the screen is turned on, because it can be distracted, and is anyway no longer needed.

We should go back to checkboxes. The problem here is having the text change and be too clever.

[x] Mute

[ ] Mute

"Oh the X means it's muted"

Windows 95 and probably an older Mac had it all figured out.

"Mute [x]" means that 'mute is false', so I click to make it say "Mute []" but instead you take the "x" away, ... so is mute no longer false?? If sound isn't working then this can be difficult to determine. You can fix it with a tooltip and/or familiarity with the system.

Buttons have more affordance too.

Use an adjective?

  [ ] Muted
  [x] Muted

... just the one adjective?

I don't follow - what do you think is missing?

Something other than muted; both your options are the same.

I see! Those were two 'screenshots' of the same setting, one in selected state and one in unselected state, following the example of a post upthread. They were not two different settings - yes, that would probably be poor UI design! I've seen worse.

Ohhh, I get it now, okay

I would not use that word because it is a negative, so it makes the user think. "Mic on" and "Mic off" are better.

This interface has both a toggle switch and a light indicator next to it. Both state and action (ish).

The light is independent of the toggle and shows the current state, which is why they mentioned a delay - clicking the toggle doesn't immediately change the light indicator next to it, clicking the toggle tells the system to turn it on and the toggle changes immediately to show desired state, and only after the system changes and sends back "I'm on now" does the light indicator change.

That sounds like an interface feature found on "smart" devices - I'm only familiar with TP-Link Kasa switches, but I think I remember their app UI having a similar feature where a color icon had multiple states, the most "on" of which is "confirmed with the switch it turned on".

That would be a great use for an HDR screen - make the "indicator light" extra bright compared to the rest of the screen, to make it really obvious that the light is now "on". Of course this would only work as long as the user doesn't keep their screen too bright to begin with...

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