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"it takes a village to raise a kid"

Yet the message sent to potential parents is so far from that, I won't blame people foregoing having kids.

There's a strong movement pushing for smaller governments and less public and social expenses in general, that directly makes it worse (kids are sick all the time, they need schools, public transportation, libraries, public services in general). You're arguing for giving up on daycare when so many companies are pushing back to office rules.

To your point, if a couple is at the point they couldn't afford lattes if they had kids, I don't see them properly raising that kid without a ton of aid, and looking at the comments we usually have here, most will point the finger at them for not being responsible enough instead.

You've addressed everything except the free time aspect.

For many, having free time replaced by family time with their kids is great and all they need/want.

"Selfishly" from the outside perspective, it makes all my friends with kids flakey, late, and one-track.

It takes a huge effort not only to avoid the consumerism side of children, but also to try and maintain your individuality.

The most successful parents I know in this regard are also conveniently the wealthiest.

Free time I guess is a big one. If you value the 'hanging with the boys', clubbing, or really any solo activity it certainly would be a shock. By the time mine came along, I was done with most of that anyways I guess. But my own free time - watching TV, playing games, reading books, or just scrolling on my phone, was largely replaced with building legos, having nerf gun fights, playing board games, etc. One 'hidden' benefit is that you get to be a kid again without seeming weird, and kids toys todays are so much cooler.

I do think 'selfish' was too broad and strong of a claim. I was focusing solely on the thought of people who make way more than enough money claiming a child would ruin their lifestyle/break them. In reality, there are tons of other reasons a person may not want a child that aren't selfish at all.

The idea that not having kids is a selfish act is ridiculous and needs to end.

The reasoning is that you were raised by somebody but when it is your turn you are avoiding the responsibility. If everybody start to think this way the human race will stop existing.

You can't renege on a "responsibility" you didn't sign up for. Furthermore, if someone asked me to make a list of mammals least in danger of extinction, humanity would be at the very top. The idea that we need to keep exponentially growing or face extinction strikes me as remarkably similar to pyramid-scheme thinking.

It is.

Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today?

If the question sounds ridiculous, trust me it isn't. You can look at demographics of China, or if you don't particularly care about that but care about finance, long duration government debt.

> Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today?

Won't someone think of the poor capitalists!

That's a sad excuse to bring a life into this world. A world that suffers from the side effects of capitalism, ironically.

Life doesn’t need excuses. It happens on its own. Human ability to stop it from happening reliably is rather new.

The poor capitalist is only one sad person. The poor dictator or emperor or tsar is another. The childless by choice middle class city dwellers who suddenly realize there’s no one young enough to provide the products and services they require to continue their hedonistic lifestyles are another still.

There’s a conspiracy theory I don’t subscribe to which says Covid and vaccines are a depopulation program. But we don’t need one…

I don't think i'd use the word selfish, but I do think it's interesting that many people who aren't wanting kids don't do it for the reasons I'd assume.

If you would have told me people choose not to have kids because they already feel they are contributing to bettering the world through some other mission, it would make sense. If you're a doctor or scientist or even a nurse or something where you feel your career is a calling, I can understand feeling stretched thin enough to not want to have kids.

But that's not what many of my anti-kid friends say. They basically say it would interfere with their netlfix watching, video game playing, luxury travel lifestyle.

It's not that kids would take away from other meaningful ways of connecting to humanity, its' that they'd get in the way of their consumption.

> Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for none of those as they aren't necessary. If even one parent works from home, it's a solved problem. If both do not, evaluate the costs. Many times, you actually lose money by both parents working

Many (most?) people definitely don't have the luxury of having a parent stay at home.

> Anyone on the fence who wants a kid - go for i

I agree. Having kids in incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.

You are just as selfish as your friends. You just have a different idea about what life you want (and also probably higher income, I bet).

Would you have another kid if you knew it would make your current kid significantly worse off? It's the same argument as that, except that you count the spouse as part of the equation.

If you make conscious choices to keep having kids even though

1. You don't need them to help on your farm or to support you in your old age, 2. Each additional kid further immiserates your spouse and the older kids

aren't you the selfish one?

No.

How is it selfish to not want children?

There is more to life than being a parent.