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Comment by tiltowait | Hacker News Reader

I worked pest control for a few years until 2021. We all knew that pesticides basically don’t work on bed bugs—it was old news.

The article glosses over heat treatments, which is odd, because it really does work, and usually in a single session. It’s a very labor-intensive and invasive procedure, though. The residents must leave the house for 8 hours while the techs bake each room and throw everything around. By the time it’s over, it looks like a tornado went through the house. And our prices started at $5k.

But it did work. The only two scenarios I was aware of where it didn’t were the result of operator error (laziness) or the customer unknowingly taking bed bugs out of the house with them when they left (we found the bed bugs were living in a baseball cap).

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Here's how we got rid of them ourselves for cheap:

1. Bought a bedbug-proof encasement for every mattress and pillow. Seals them in and they starve.

2. Bought a handheld steam cleaner and steamed every seam on every piece of furniture.

3. Spread the diatomaceous earth all over the floor. Don't be shy and over do it. It wont work immediately but in 7 days or more they are dead.

This. My wife had grabbed a couch off the side of the road. Perfect condition, even advertised on Facebook as free!

After a couple days we saw these bugs crawling out of the couch. After a quick reverse image search, it came back as a bed bug.

Lo and behold we noticed these buggers were all over our house after a month.

We didn't use anything but diatomaceous earth. Sprinkled it all over the house around the base boards and furniture. After about two months, they were all gone.

Is it safe to use this to avoid any possible bed bug outbreaks? or are there any risks that outweigh the benefit of it defending against possible bed bugs?

I've been thinking about spreading it around every so often under my bed (plus around my bedroom) just in case.

It's generally considered safe. It's sold as an additive to livestock feed, though I don't know what the purpose there is.

It's very finely ground volcanic rock. The particulates have very sharp edges which shred insect exoskeletons. It doesn't hurt your skin though.

It might cause a problem if inhaled, similar to silicosis but that's mostly a guess.

Some people leave a line of it on windowsills or door thresholds to keep bugs out, but it's a fine powder that gets everywhere and makes a mess. Personally I wouldn't leave it around but that's up to you

> It's very finely ground volcanic rock.

No. "Diatomaceous earth is made from the fossilized remains of tiny, aquatic organisms called diatoms. Their skeletons are made of a natural substance called silica." http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html

> It's very finely ground volcanic rock.

Wikipedia is pretty clear that it's finely ground fossils. (It also says that it's sedimentary rock, as is necessary for fossils. Fossils can't be volcanic rock; their structure would be destroyed by melting.)

They also aren’t necessarily ground (the fossils) - and are made of silica.

Breathing it for long periods of time wouldn’t be ideal.

> It's generally considered safe. It's sold as an additive to livestock feed, though I don't know what the purpose there is.

Antiparasitic.

I'm going to go ahead and suggest you don't make a proclamation of safety (about a product associated with severe lung disease) followed immediately by "mostly a guess".

You want “food grade” diatomaceous, which is reasonably safe. Personally I wouldn’t use it preemptively, only when there’s a suspected problem. I would wear a mask when applying.

“Pool grade” diatomaceous earth should not be used, it is hazardous to be around as it’s structure was changed by heating.

https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/blogs/learning-center/begi...

Don't you have to be careful not to breathe that stuff since it's composed if tiny silica spikes? You'd need to wear a respirator in your house.

Have used it to get rid of fleas. The DA dust just lays on the floor - once applied it’s out of the air.

We didn’t wear respirators and I haven’t heard of anyone who does in this scenario.

Not really, there are different forms and OSHA recommendations for how much of a safer form should be in the air if you are possibly breathing it your whole working life..

Pets and very small children might get much higher doses being curious and near the floor though.

Yup. It’s a fine powder that will get into the air if walked on or near, and causes nasal and lung irritation if breathed in short term - and silicosis if breathed in long term.

Unlikely this length of exposure would result in silicosis probably though.

[http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html]

One trick is do not clean it up with a vacuum.

Well actually you want a thin layer not a thick one otherwise bugs walk around it.

> Seals them in and they starve.

The problem here is that their lifecycle is unimaginably long and punctuated. They happily hibernate for 6 months at a time between feedings, so waiting them out means waiting a very very very long time.

I say we nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

TBH I'm skeptical. Everyone talks about the 99.999th percentile case but does it work in practice..?

They can survive 6 months without eating, but they'll also feed off of each other last-man-standing style, which is why you have to go a whole lot longer.

Yeah I've read all of the facts about them, but I've also read posts by many people who have simply done any ONE of the myriad of suggestions, and claim that it worked. So there's more to the story here.

I think the story is that maybe you get lucky and maybe you don't.

never remove the cover..

You simply leave the cover on indefinitely.

Bonus: No more bedbugs can ever get in.

I believe that not only the bed bugs but most or all bugs related to them (Hemiptera) are more resistant to insecticides than most other insects.

Where I live, in Europe, when I was young there were abundant insects of many kinds, butterflies, dragonflies, lacewings, flies, bumblebees, wasps, beetles, crickets and many others.

Now all have disappeared, but various kinds of bugs (Hemiptera) are still abundant, actually more abundant than before, when many other kinds of insects existed.

Can't be that old. I had bed bugs in 2012 I believe. I bought some of the recommended insecticide and sprayed a small perimeter and released a couple that I had captured into the middle. They then crawled outward and I was shocked how quickly after they crossed the perimeter they died.

Was the pesticide Proproxur? That stuff does work but you can't buy it anymore. I think the last stocks sold around 2012...

When I lived in Las Vegas we unfortunately moved into an apartment for a short time that had them. We just took out all the cushions, couches, mattresses, and bedding, and set them out in the summer heat for a few days. (It was actually very inconvenient, but you know. Worth it.) It worked!

So much for my plans to attend the Caddyserver ‘24 slumber party

Heat works.

We heat the room to 120-130 for 12-16 hours.

Some people are magnets. bedbugs love their blood.

That’s 55 Celsius. Doesn’t sound too bothersome. What if they hide somewhere? Does 130F/55C just kill them at once?

It's not immediate, but my crude understanding was the heaters they use are positioned so the outer edges of the home heat up first. That way the bed bugs can't escape - they'd have to know to go towards the heat first.

Also don't forget it just takes time to heat up a home that much.

Wouldn't that damage stuff? Plastics will go weak and start outgassing. Electronics might break.. and if you move all that stuff out you might take them with you

Among the instructions you get are to put batteries and anything sensitive to heat in the fridge for protection. I didn't notice any damage after I had it done; my laptop, robot vacuum, and smart switches worked fine afterwards.

They die due to dehydration. They live on blood. Dead one are just flat. I have cought some and left in a sun in a cup. They died in a day or two.

If they are not hungry, they will stay at one location. When they are hungry, they will travel.

Typically they like to live near their food sources. In hotel, they are found in Mattress bedframe etc. High heat has high fan running too. As long as air reaches their, it will heat up. We had 100% success rate with heat as long as you setup properly

I read once they get into beds by crawling up the bedposts and by putting something smooth like aluminum cups around the posts, the bugs cannot crawl up. What do you think of that?

I'd assume that works for local bedbugs, but is no defense against ones tracked in on clothing, furniture, etc.

Not much can stop a lone bedbug carried in. What you're trying to do is prevent your mattress from becoming a nest.

The problem with DE is it's so inexpensive and effective, and that makes it difficult to sell as a product. I got a 2kg bag of it for $10, and it's enough to last decades.

Might as well use this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

I can confirm, DE works. Just don't breathe the stuff, which you're supposed to puff onto surfaces. Once it's there, the bugs have to crawl across it so it'll cut them up like little razor blades, or a thousand paper cuts. So satisfying.

It's less like a thousand paper cuts, and more like it removes their stillsuit so they dry out.

https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Stillsuit

Basically anything microscopic is increasingly found to be just horrible to inhale, but this blurb from Wikipedia says there are probably significantly worse things to handle for a one-time treatment.

   ...In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis.[46] Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.[47]

  The crystalline silica content of diatomaceous earth is regulated in the United States by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and there are guidelines from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health that set maximum amounts allowable in the product (1%) and in the air near the breathing zone of workers, with a recommended exposure limit at 6 mg/m3 over an 8-hour workday.[47] OSHA has set a permissible exposure limit for diatomaceous earth as 20 mppcf (80 mg/m3/%SiO2). At levels of 3,000 mg/m3, diatomaceous earth is immediately dangerous to life and health.

  In the 1930s, long-term occupational exposure among workers in the cristobalite diatomaceous earth industry who were exposed to high levels of airborne crystalline silica over decades were found to have an increased risk of silicosis.[49]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

Yes I'm not saying it's going to cause long term damage to your lungs, it's probably pretty safe, but it doesn't feel great if you inhale it, and it's easy to avoid if you just put on a mask or spray and move away.

I fought bed bugs once with DE, heat, and dry ice traps or you can use a co2 fish tank pump to attract them into a trap. We also placed containers filled with oil at the bottom of each bed post.

It took a year but we were successful

Dry ice is an interesting idea. I want it to work, because it is just so deliciously different.

However, I assume the harsh reality says that it is nearly impossible to suffocate the entire infestation, and more than a few survivors or eggs would remain after the treatment.

The goal isn't to suffocate them, but to draw them into a trap--they're attracted to CO2 because we exhale it. Over time, the hope is you trap and kill the entire population.

I think it'd work for mild infestations, but for larger ones the heat method is really the only option.

I suppose that seems much more plausible, if significantly less cool, ahem, than making a low hanging CO2 bath.

Both heat and cold kill, it just takes a long time at certain temperatures.

Double sided tape trapped whole families :)

Interesting, so I could put this in a cup below each post.

But I hope we never have to try this.

There are caveats to using diatomaceous earth. If inhaled, it'll do to your airways what it does to insects. You'd want to avoid disturbing it or placing any where airflow from heating ducts, fans, etc. might blow across it to prevent it from floating around in the air.

The reason to use fossilized diatoms instead of something synthesized is specifically so that you won't get silicosis from too much crystallized silica. But I agree, just sprinkling it liberally around your house as some kind of preventative measure sounds like way more exposure than I'd be comfortable with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Safety_cons...

Rubbing vaseline along the base above the feet seemed to do the trick for my beds the once or twice they got bedbugs.

If the infestation is heavy enough they will climb the walls and drop from the ceiling.

NOPE. Fucking nightmares. Done with internet, today.

I'm going to go do my dishes, while contemplating burning the whole thing down =D

Like special forces bed-bug airborne commandos?

Ceilings can be tougher for them. One assumes with enough bed bugs, the numbers are such that one of them is going to inevitably hold onto the ceiling long enough to get position. However it's recommended to move beds away from walls because they can easily climb walls and fall from there.

My grandfather was in the German army in WW2 and he said they called them Fallschirmjäger - paratroopers - for exactly this reason, they would climb tent walls to drop onto beds that had their legs placed in tins of water to try and keep them off.

That trick mainly keeps ants at bay. Spiders and everything else get you from above.

yes,actually! I am cringing right now remembering it. Nightmare of my life, we unwittingly moved into an infested house.

You do realize that I’ll spend the rest of the day looking up at my ceiling and scratching the frantically at imaginary bedbugs.

Oh, they're not imaginary.

You’re off my Hanukkah list now

I got rid of them in two places just using a bed protector, the things you put under the bed’s legs, fast-acting spray, and a foam spray (residual). I did the bed and edges of the carpet and furniture. It killed them all. We knew cuz I didn’t have bloody holes in my arms and back.

Article indicates some types are immune. That will be a different story. People might still be able to clear them out with sprays, though.

The exterminator who handled ours 7 years ago swore by using whatever he uses for dealing with mosquitos. I don't know the specific chemical.

Took 2-3 treatments but it worked.

Does the heat treatment damage electronics? Can you leave your computers in the house while your house is baking?

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