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Comment by twojobsoneboss | Hacker News Reader

Losing ~ALL your free time can hurt alot mentally, esp if you had very specific life goals like starting a business and escaping the 9-5 (vs generic ones like travelling the world etc), you likely have to give those up, and that can be very difficult mentally and emotionally

I went through a "grieving" process of my new fate in life. It helped more when the baby started smiling. It helped more when she started sleeping through the night. It helped more as I internalized and built acceptance more.

If anyone wants to reach out on this aspect of fatherhood please reply and would love to get in touch.

EDIT: And goes without saying, but try all you can to get into a job/role that's remote and not super time-consuming or stressful. You will find it really valuable to have some of that 9-5 time when there's childcare (and also away from your spouse depending on the situation) to recharge and do whatever the F you want :)

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Hard agree. I lost everything. Pre kids: working in a startup with long (but enjoyable) hours, lots of travel, conferences, tech meetups multiple nights throughout the week followed by continued discussion / dinner / bar hopping afterwards, music festivals, clubbing until sunrise and time with friends on weekends. If I wanted to do something, focus on something, or neglect something it could happen.

Then I had a child and COVID hit at the same time.

I switched jobs to an org with much more stability, predictable hours, and absolutely devoid of any passion. Combine that with immense sleep deprivation, no child-compatible social network, and society going through its own existential challenges. My mental health was comatose.

It's hard. It's really fucking hard, but you will settle into new patterns that work for you, even if that takes time. I'm now a few years in, have redefined some sense of self, work part time (in the same org, but a properly enjoyable role) and have a tiny human that my partner and I are continuing to explore the world with. It's an inexplainable experience that you're about to embark on. Hope you enjoy the ride.

Yes, all the "it's hard" that you hear from others – yeah you have no idea until you actually experience it.

So glad things improved for you. Really once you're a dad, the only choice is to adapt or divorce. Call it copium or what have you, but you do what needs to be done, you shift your mindset however it needs shifting, and do whatever helps you (and everyone else) get through.

Divorce doesn’t stop you from being a parent. Having a child is one of the few non-invertable functions you can apply to life.

This is a good point. Not everyone immediately bonds with a newborn, either father or mother. If you're not feeling something you think you're supposed to be feeling, that's not unusual.

And they definitely get fun later on - but you'd be surprised at both how long it takes, and at the fun things you can find pretty early on.

Totally. I expected to feel this intense love that would help with the difficulty of it all, and it didn’t happen.

I also didn’t get any kind of surge of extra energy driven by this great new responsibility- you’ll have to make do with what you have folks.

I do love the baby a lot but I barely think about her when I’m not with her, unlike her mom which thinks about her all the time

Very late to this, but it will come. You will bond with your child and not even realize it. I would have said that I wasn't bonded with my child. In fact, she kind of annoyed me. Then I sent her away for a month to get a break. Suddenly everything fell apart for me emotionally. Turned out I could not think avout her when I was working etc because I was very comfortable with the people she was in the care of. Now that she was with people I really trusted, but several hours away withoit the ability to a check in on her whenever I wanted, it made me realize how very bonded I was to her.

I remember walking to her room out of habit and then laughing because of course she wouldn't be there. And then I'd do that 2 or 3 times a day every day. Other such absurdities.

I think that was a good experience for me because I still don't think about my kid very much when she's not around, but it doesn't mean I'm not attached to her.

I kind of disagree with this take. I mean sure, you do lose almost all your free time and you definitely have to reevaluate your priorities, but I don't think you need to give up on your life goals / things outside of work. IE. I have a ~3 year old and recently completed a master's degree while being (by my own evaluation) a good dad/husband. It was definitely a struggle and had to really challenge myself as to whether I thought it was worth doing, but I found the time to get it done after my wife and child were asleep or before they were awake. I think it gets a little easier to carve out free time after the first year.

I have my second on the way so we'll see if I'm still singing this tune in the fall.

Definitely agree with the remote thing though. I'm in a fully in-office role now and believe my life would be vastly improved if I found a remote role. I'm committed where I'm at for another 18 months and then plan to try my hardest to get into something remote.

Were you doing your masters along side your work?

In any case, this is heartening to see. The majority consensus seems to be you can either be a good dad, or pursue lofty goals, but not both because of the time commitment required for each.

TBH I'm looking for successful examples of parent founders (founding when they had a kid, and not when the kids were grown), particularly in the realm of vc backed ventures (even indie would make good examples, but there's a slightly different dynamic). I haven't found any good examples yet, and I don't know if that's because people don't talk about being a parent while pursuing other goals, or its something people don't do,

Tbf if you’re going to be quitting your 9-5 I don’t think it’s an issue. But no, I have not seen any _American_ examples of being a good dad + 9-5 + being a successful founder

That makes more sense. I do think if you add a 9-5 to it its nearing impossible.

That’s awesome but also a masters is a very different beast than starting a business IMO. It’s pretty defined (even with a thesis, in comparison) whereas trying to start a successful business is constant double guessing, pivoting, hustling when opportunities come by, needing to drop other things when opportunities come by, constantly strategizing/worrying when doing other things, etc

Still, that’s an achievement and kudos

Some people do have to give up their goals/dreams

Yours just happened to be still doable

Interesting. So from what I'm understanding, in your experience it is impossible to pursue goals for starting a startup or escaping the 9-5 once you have a child (or at least in the first several years of having a child?), and the 'correct' course of action is to accept that your goal is to provide and raise a family as your priority?

That’s correct. I’ll add more details soon

I would agree with OP, especially if your goal is to be a good parent. If you want do just basics of parenting, then it is not hard to pursue other goals.

I got young kids who definitely need a lot of personal attention, got appointments, playdates, driving around, etc. I could cut out a lot of these activities but then they end up watching tons of TV. I keep thinking once they are older, then I will have more time for personal projects but my friends with older kids are just as busy. If their kid is in sports, then forget about any freetime. They are always driving them to trainings, games, etc. One friend wakes up 3 in the morning to drive their kid to swim practice. They sleep in the car for 2-3 hours, then take their kid to school.

If your kids are not in the sports, then it does not look as bad but it seems they are always doing driving for their kids.

But I also think part of being a great parent is to teach your kids to pursue their dreams. And the best way to teach that is by showing them how you pursue your own dreams. Now how to do it all without burning out, I am still trying to figure out. (Or maybe I need to accept that it is not possible to do so)

Adding more details:

YES, it is all-consuming. It was for me and probably for most. Obviously there are factors like grandparents help available etc, but unless you have a full time live-in maid like they have in Asia (au pairs don’t count cause they’re still 45hrs/week), there’s so many chores to do, on top of watching and entertaining the baby.

At first I tried to still do everything, but after some fights I realized I wasn’t being a good husband/father and progress was so slow on the business that it was probably not gonna make it anyway.

My current advice: If you have such unmet goals, assume that there’s a 90% chance you’ll have to give them up. Then make your decisions based on that. Which are you more willing to give up on? It could lead to very tough decisions eg splitting with your spouse, if it’s something you truly can’t see eye to eye on. Mostly if you wanna do both and still have a few childbearing years left get off your ass NOW and go for it, quit your job, whatever, it might be your last shot.

One other tidbit: with kids there’s no time to do things but there’s LOTS of time to THINK about things eg when watching them, doing dishes, etc. I would have 100x more time to think about what I could do with the business than I actually had to be on my laptop to do them. It was absolutely maddening.

EDIT to add: I do believe having kids is one of the most beautiful, fulfilling and noble acts most of us can do, and in fact for most people (who spend most of their free time on entertainment) it’s the right thing… but the sacrifice is far greater for some than others.

Different parents, people really, have different needs for alone - deep thinking or wind-down time. I need a lot. Others don't need any. I think it's important to understand how much you can limit this time before you have children.

This hit hard.

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