"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools."
But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?
But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?
Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which I think is currently way too low. With the result of people not understanding that they are the product in social networks etc.
Knives are used in everyday life and can't explode or poison you either, yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example. So saying if something can or can't explode is not a useful metric.
Teaching them how to use a computer under guidance, is useful and so should be treated like a tool to be taught on how to use. Not just handed out willy nilly.
Actually some do. Boy scouts traditionally for example do not think, that kids are generally to be treated as idiots.
So yes, you do not give a knive to someone who cannot handle it. There are 20 year olds who should not be given anything sharper than a plastic knive. But a ordinary child usually can handle dangerous stuff - you lead them there, step by step.
Same with computers, smartphones etc. If neccessary, you can provide a locked down environment at first, with only approved apps and sites (or no internet at all).
But one day, they need to handle it all, without someone holding their hands. And they cannot learn it, if they always only navigated a locked down safe space.
Handing out knives/computers/chemistry sets without training and unsupervised does not help.
They should also be warned about the potential harms as part of their technological education. Children who are adept at typing should be allowed small laptops for note taking. These are just tools. Kids are not all the same, and choice is paramount here.
The issue is not the computers but the awful and toxic software that gets onto them. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Instagram... and other edu-tech wares have absolutely no place in our schools.
They stifle curiosity and free-thinking, and impose meek compliance, and deference to authoritarian values. These are commercial concerns that intrude into places they have no right to, whose objectives are fundamentally misaligned with education because they exploit, extract, distract, manipulate, spy, addict demotivate young minds.
Teaching kids about technology is essential, and should include teaching them proper scepticism and caution. Allowing children to be taught by technology is an abdication of responsibility by schools, teachers and parents.
???
I know of at least two distinct ways to make a toxic chemical using only things found in an entirely normal kitchen[0], and that's just using the things I was taught at school.
Both methods also produce an explosive gas as a side product.
[0] And that's not just a joke at the expense of British cuisine
Then due to fear of drug labs and terrorism, those largely became relics of a better past.
Part of me wants to see a program where students have to build everything from scratch before they can use it. Like each student gets something like a Rasberry Pi and they have to install an text based OS and then make the graphics stack work. If kids are smart enough to play Minecraft and legos they're smart enough to make something like that work. But basically no teacher would be qualified to teach it or troubleshoot, especially given how poorly we pay teachers currently.
Not to say that everything needs computers, of course not. But banning them seems a not that helpful overkill.
Sounds a bit hyperbolic. How are kids being hurt by Google specifically?
Not specifically related to Google, but we are making our kids write less, which literally dumbs them down: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264763007_Handwriti... (You can find lots of research on this, there's no controversy here.)
Somewhat less of a profound problem is the extreme amount of pollution: https://pirg.org/edfund/resources/chromebook-churn-report-hi...
My kid has brought his third Chromebook in just a few years from school. We are all going to pay for all this, while the big tech generates billions of profits and the whole planet is marching towards tech feudalism.
The "user" not being able to change or understand any single program they use, being driven further and further away form the technology, in an almost comical way, that we have arrived to the point of "I dont know if i can plug a keyboard in my laptop".
She tried to save a file, which of course did not work due to some One Drive permission thing, then she uploads it to her teacher in Teams, and it gets automatically converted from docx to odt or something else, so what she sees is not what the teacher sees, and of course there were subtle differences in the order of the images and etc, so it affects her grade.
She got quite stressed until I just told her to make a pdf and upload it, but she was smart to double check and download the uploaded file and figure out its not right.
I just dont understand how did we end up here, but more importantly, I dont understand what to do to make it better, so I am just withdrawing, going into a world of riscv and 1.44 floppy drives and just live in a parallel tech universe.
The push to get children familiar with appliance computers as opposed to general purpose computers goes at least as far back as the 1980s with Apple.
So how we ended up here is basically nearly half a century of lobbying from computer manufacturers to promote proprietary computation appliances that children have limited or no control over.
> we studied the law and it turned out that there was a law already on the books... that said that if you donated a piece of scientific instrumentation or computer to a university for educational and research purposes you can take an extra tax deduction.... We thought that if we could apply that law, enhance it a little bit to extend it down to K through 8 and remove the research requirements so it was just educational, then we could give a hundred thousand computers away, one to each school in America.
Steve Jobs, quoted in https://hackeducation.com/2015/02/25/kids-cant-wait-apple
We are decoupling our children from the actual underlying electrophysical reality by feeding them the Google version of computing, which is a lazy, stupid, point-and-click reduction of the actual processes.
Believe me, it matters for Google and other big tech who create this layer of abstraction between the reality and their customers. Because it matters for their bottom line. Initially the motive may have been totally benign, like making things easier. But the fact that they are profit-oriented corporations incentivizes them to deepen the abstraction further.
The end result? Google execs owning your skills and your data - they pwn you. You don't know how reality works anymore. You want to find a job? Pay Google. You want to store a photo? Pay Google. Wanna call someone? Pay Google. Want to draw something? Pay Google. Want to develop an app so you could at least have this feeling that you could draw something without paying Google? Pay Google.
They are going to be your overlords.
Frankly knowing folks who work at Google, I do not have a lot of confidence that they will succeed at much of anything but selling ads and making money.
Greater societal inequality.
For actually learning things? It's like pet food packaging.
What do I mean by that? The pets don't buy the food, their owners do; the result is the packaging is designed to appeal to the owners. Does a cat care about the bright colours their retinas can't see, the metaphors they don't have the language comprehension to process? Or do they seem like picky eaters because they're put off food when it has subtle odours that their owners can't perceive? Likewise, are dogs meat-obsessed like pop culture tells us, or are they omnivores that will joyfully wolf down just about anything and wait for their digestive tract to figure out afterwards if it needs to be rapidly expelled?
Parents and schools buy stuff to teach with, it's sold to the adults because the kids have neither the budget nor the judgement to decide what they ought to learn. But how good are those things at teaching? We only find out much later, at first when the kids take exams and we see how well they learned, and later when we look at the same people in the workforce and find out if that exam itself is representative of the skills we care about.
Learning as an adult, I get to see if online courses teach me; I've gone from being a heavy user of Duolingo, even paying for a subscription, to giving up on it entirely as it morphed from lessons into an annoying kids cartoon.
I'm worried that I'm seeing similar from Brilliant.org, too. The older courses on e.g. using Q# to program quantum computers is still good — hard, yes, but good, it's actually pushing me to learn more, and in this it reminds me of when I started learning programming on a Commodore 64 from the user manual when I was aged about 5 or 6 — but the newer course updates over the last year or so have focussed on unskippable "cute" cartoons and the absolute beginner level content that parents and teachers will pay for, not filling in the gaps with the hard stuff that brings in the most educational value.
Although I say that knowing my grades in school wouldn't have been trash if I'd been able to use a computer and not get discriminated for my handwriting.
When I was a teenager in the 2000s you could still go to the mall, walk into an store and fill out a paper application for jobs, though even then they looked at you a bit funny. I’m pretty sure that’s not possible anymore, so it’s effectively required to at least be able to access the internet to find a job and participate in society. You’ll also almost certainly need to know how to use computers, and depending on the work, understand files and file systems.
I’m follow some subreddits that tend to attract younger people who are interested in programming. Whatever you take for granted about basic computer knowledge, I suspect most people don’t have it. One recent example was someone concerned that if they saved more than one file in a folder, it would overwrite anything in there (like a video game save slot). I think for a lot of people their only computer knowledge comes from game consoles and phones.