Hisense A9 Pro E-Ink Android Smartphone | Hacker News Reader

Hisense A9 Pro E-Ink Android Smartphone

hisenseeink.com

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THIS IS NOT A HISENSE SITE!

There's no such thing as Hisense A9 Pro. It's just A9.

The site has zero contact information, you have no idea who you are buying it from.

Buyer beware!

https://reddit.com/r/eink/comments/17oc6jq/httpshisenseeinkc...

You can find official jd.com links on https://ereaderx.com/product/hisense-a9-eink-phone-specs/ use your favorite proxy, I use superbuy but I won't link because this is not a spam post. Notably it's 266.70 USD from JD this sus website wants 479.99 for the same... shipping will add a little but certainly not even half the difference.

Edit:

Nevermind, I confused HiSense and Huawei's HiSilicon :(

With that said, HiSense is more of a white box OEM outside Asia, so maybe this is them trying a new thing with direct sales to West?

HiSilicon =/= Hisense.

Anyone considering buying this phone in the US should probably not do so because it has no support for UTMS aka 3G (still common in rural areas), does not support any of the 4G "long range" bands, and no 5G support (an increasing number of rural cell towers are long-range 5G)

It does support the majority of non-extended-range Tmobile bands. I did not check other carriers, but this thing is much worse than a Nexus 6 in terms of LTE band support - a phone that came out about 8-9 years ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39266008

I just started using this phone a couple weeks ago. It runs android 11, and the Ink OS that is runs is actually pretty clean and simple. I use Mint Mobile as my provider since TMobile is the only carrier that really supports it in the US. I am located in NYC and while the phone's coverage isn't like my older iPhone's its still pretty good. You can also get it off AliExpress for about $360 (At least I was able to). Not quite sure if it can use Android auto yet.

Overall I have had a good experience using the phone. My goal was to reduce my daily eye strain while not giving up the phone essentials, and it has certainly helped me do that.

> runs android 11

that's a bummer. There is a killer new feature on android 12 that allows neostore (F-droid frontend) that allows apps to auto update without me having to remember to manually update them.

If you are in the market for a current state of the art e-ink phone, would having to do a few taps a month genuinely stop you buying this model? Seems like a very minor inconvenience for someone who values an esoteric technology combination.

> state of the art

> android 11

The e-ink part can be state of the art even if the rest of the phone isn't

Until you stop receiving updates.

If you look into other Android E-ink devices they all run Android 11. I can't find where I saw it now, but I looked into it when I bought a Onyx Boox device and it apparently had something to do with the driver blobs for the screen not supporting Android 12 and higher.

Android 12 iirc changed a lot of things and removed some features too. Android 9 & 12 are particularly "notorious" in this regard, I still have my Pixel 5 on A11 as a result. (Accessing all "files"/killing 3rd party file managers is one of the things A12 changed, for example.)

Unfortunately there was a very good reason for making this change: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/more-than-1000-android-apps...

There is (of course) always a bunch of hardware that never gets updated when some big shift comes around... but there is also stuff that never gets updated because it was doing something it wasn't supposed to be.

You can't really enforce permissions in the absence of good sandboxing. And you can't really enforce permission without app review either, for a variety of social reasons (network effect, breaking unrelated functionality or outright refusing to work unless you give them location permissions, whatever). Which is the problem with the "just allow sideloading, bing bong so simple" crowd's argument, there already is ample evidence that plenty of apps have enough leverage to successfully extort the user.

Is that really an android 12 feature? F-droid Basic (almost the same app, same dev, same looks, without fancy direct sharing options; you can actually get it via old f-droid) can do that as well. They had to rewrite their implementation of how apps are installed, it took a while. With that only first install of the app needs confirmation.

Thanks for the mention of f-droid basic - looks like what I need to have sane updates - without switching to neo store:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.basic/

https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient

Yes, previously on hacker news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27218157

> Android 12 will let alternative app stores update apps automatically (xda-developers.com)

With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already.

Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)?

> With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already.

> Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)?

I am not an Android developer so this is just my understanding and could be wrong.

No, this is not about installing new applications. This is about allowing updates for apps already installed with user permission. All usual caveats apply. Update must be signed with the same key (it is an actual update, not an uninstall old + install new), yada yada

Is that?

https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store

https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/

I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great!

If you have any other recommendations, I'd gladly hear them.

> I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great!

Glad to be of service. If you haven't tried it yet, please give KOReader a try https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid...

(sorry if you knew this already)

There's no mention of GPS and NFC, I assume it lacks these modules?

I don't know about NFC, but until this moment I just assumed GPS was built in to any (qualcomm) soc that also integrated cellular. Or was it bt/wifi? It piggybacks some other antenna and hence 'just works'.

Are you finding it less addictive than a typical smartphone?

yes this is one of the reasons I got it. Good luck binging youtube at a refresh rate so low and only support for black and white.

I accidentally stumbled upon a feature in YouTube that's killed my binging altogether.

Turn YouTube Watch History off (Google Account > Data & Privacy > YouTube History). I mostly did it cuz I didn't want Google to have a history of all my YouTube videos, but the accidental effect is that when I go to youtube, I literally have a blank screen (no suggested videos) and instead it just says "turn search history back on"

This means that I have to actually search for a particular topic to start watching about it, and most times when I'd be consuming more, I don't have the mental capacity to pick a topic I care about.

The one hitch is that if you subscribe to channels, you'll still see all those videos, but those update very infrequently and you don't see a bunch of nonsense you don't have to watch.

I have done that and it is very nice. I also use this chrome extension https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/unhook-remove-youtu...

That is the Youtube start page I want but I use history regularly to find videos between devices.

Looks like there is a colour e-ink option. https://hisenseeink.com/products/hisense-a7-cc-color-e-ink-s...

This is the A7 which is an older version. I would make sure it still has 4G support otherwise no carriers will support it in the US

Presumably, the refresh rate for it is even worse.

According to the product page, the refresh rate is equally as fast as the b&w refresh.

Resolution is the big compromise with color e-ink, the effective pixel density is cut in half when the color layer is enabled. With the current best panels you get 300dpi in mono mode but only 150dpi in color mode, and fidelity of the mono mode is compromised compared to a mono-only panel with the same resolution. The color rendition still isn't great either.

Going eink helped me cut back video content. But I ended up listening to more podcast at faster speeds and since i have youtube premium, backgorund listening. It's... better, since I treat it as background noise and ears don't get fatigued / strained like eyes do.

What is typing like on this? My daughter has a Kobo Clara and I haven't been impressed with the responsiveness of it.

It feels like an iphone 8 keyboard that is about to die. It isn't the quickest thing in the world, but good enough to respond to texts and emails.

Works fine, this has the fastest eink screen available.

Kobo is notorious for having atrocious response time. I'm on my third generation of Kobo reader and it's still dogshit slow.

The periodic crashes are also really tiresome - I regularly have to hard-power-cycle the thing and often lose my reading progress. Why this has been a problem for 6+ years is beyond me but my guess is that they're spending very little on R&D/QA, running on an ancient SoC.

> Kobo is notorious for having atrocious response time. I'm on my third generation of Kobo reader and it's still dogshit slow.

I am impressed by your commitment

> I regularly have to hard-power-cycle the thing and often lose my reading progress.

Kobo must be very good, in other ways!

Given the limited framerate of the device, I wonder whether running videos comes with latency that makes listening to them impossible.

It's expected that E-ink would demolish video quality, but does it has an incidence on sound if you want to listen to a video on the metro line?

There's a youtube demo in the article.

Why would screen refresh have any influence on audio latency?

How's the battery life?

about 3 days (maybe 4 days) of normal usage

How many hours of screen-on time do you get in those three days?

"Screen-on" is a meaningless term in the context of eink.

I am very curious to see if Android Auto works on it, because if it does I'd seriously consider it.

Does it have a lot of Chinese junk-ware on it, though?

I will check in a few days if it can run android auto and update here. To be honest, it probably has a lot of junk-ware on it, this really isn't my domain of expertise though. I can tell you from a user experience, it has been very easy to use.

How is the battery life?

About 3 days long with normal usage (maybe 4)

Are you able to find or guess the screen on time per charge? 3 days is wildly different for someone who uses their phone an hour per day, vs someone who scrolls social media for 12 hours a day.

Does it support american networks?

TMobile and MVNOs like mint mobile offer decent support (at least in NYC)

It happening to support a band or two used in NYC doesn't tell us much - we need to know all the cellular bands it supports, because even a 6 year old iphone doesn't support bands used in a lot of areas. Cell companies are now focused on 5G and a phone that doesn't support most US 4G frequencies, and 5G, is going to be increasingly hobbled.

Edit:

https://www.devicespecifications.com/en/model/344c59bb

Supports no UTMS (3G) bands, ten LTE bands and no 5G bands.

LTE-FDD 850 MHz (B5) LTE-FDD 900 MHz (B8) LTE-FDD 1700 MHz (B4) LTE-FDD 1800 MHz (B3) LTE-FDD 2100 MHz (B1) LTE-FDD 2600 MHz (B7) LTE-TDD 1900 MHz (B39) LTE-TDD 2300 MHz (B40) LTE-TDD 2500 MHz (B41) LTE-TDD 2600 MHz (B38)

An iPhone 8, six years old, supports twenty five LTE bands.

According to Tmobile's website, they use the following bands:

4G LTE

    Band 2 (1900 MHz)
    Band 5 (850 MHz)
    Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz)
    Band 66 (Extension of band 4 on 1700/2100 MHz).

Extended Range 4G LTE

    Band 12 (700 MHz)
    Band 71 (600 MHz)

...and then the 5G/5GUC bands.

So the overlap would be B5, B1/B4, B39. No support for 5G. No support for UTMS, band 66 or extended range...so good luck using it in rural areas.

> T-Mobile

> T-Mobile is the brand name used by some of the mobile communications subsidiaries of the German telecommunications company Deutsche Telekom AG in the Czech Republic, Poland and the United States.

too early in the morning for me (:

It's a shame Sharps MIP-LCDs haven't been scaled up to phone or tablet sizes, those could be a nice balance with almost the power efficiency and comfort of e-ink but with fast enough response times to keep up with animation and smooth scrolling UIs. That's the screen technology the Pebble smartwatches used, and the Playdate console more recently.

Fully agree, in this race of "2000 NIT ULTRA BRIGHT OLED FOR DAYLIGHT!!!" screens, transflective displays make sunlight seem like a gift. My previous smartwatch (Amazfit Bip) had one and it's a real pity no one bothers too much with them.

Garmin still uses MIP-LCD on a lot of their smartwatches, though even they have started offering more OLED variants which trade battery life and sunlight readability for better aesthetics.

I loved the reflective mode on the olpc xo1, but have never seen it in use anywhere else.

Another interesting phone they offer is the dual-screen A6L that has a typical LCD on the front and an e-ink screen on the rear!

https://hisenseeink.com/products/hisense-a6l-64-128-gb

The YotaPhone did something similar back in 2012, I'm surprised it took this long for someone else to try it again. IIRC they had oodles of crowdfunding support but fumbled the logistics side of things.

Hisense produces e-ink smartphone at least since 2018, they also got one with a colored e-ink display.

I had a chance to play with one, it was a phenomenal phone. It's a shame it fell apart.

Especially wit how many extra screens in folding phones these days.

I think the point is that the manufacturer decided to put a absurd strong DAC inside so that it double as a music player.

I’ve been using an Hisense A5 daily for the last 4 years (so it is the previous model, which is less powerful and without Google Play store).

https://ploum.net/se-passer-decran-avec-un-telephone-e-ink/i...

Ask Me Anything about not having a true screen on your phone.

Can you use navigation apps like Waze ? Et Spotify ?

And chatting apps like Telegram and Whastap ?

I’m using Pure Maps and OSM And perfectly well.

The only downside is that, on some maps, the grey-water is the same as the grey-road and it happened a few times that I thought a canal was a road when doing bike trip.

Google Maps is working but sometimes loosing the position, probably due to the fact there are no Google services on the smartphone. So Google Maps is very unreliable. It may loose positioning in the middle of a trip (suddenly, position is not updated anymore).

Well, really good to degooglize yourself ;-)

Never tried Spotify nor Waze nor Telegram.

Whatsapp was working if I remember well but I’ve deleted my account year ago. Signal is working fine except for notifications which are sometimes held until you launch the app. This doesn’t happen all the time, I suspect the aggressive battery "freezer".

For me, it is a feature as I’m disturbed less (the phone is in silence mode most of the time anyway). If I expect a message, I simply open Signal before locking the screen.

Note: there’s a way to forbid freezing for specific applications if needed. I just didn’t wanted to do it.

Using signal has not been always easy. See : https://ploum.net/2023-03-09-losing-signal.html

How's the battery life?

Battery life was about a week and is now about 3 days but it really depends on which apps you want to "freeze" and which apps you never want to "freeze" (to receive notifications).

There’s also a "super saving mode" which allows only 6 apps, no notifications. I use it during long bikepacking trips, recharging every other day when stoping for lunch in a restaurant. It is great. Also, I leave the "super saving mode" if I need to use another app.

So it is perfectly possible to get very long battery time but you need to really configure it and figure out how to use it.

I’ve lost a lot a battery time by disabling freeze for Adguard VPN. In day to day use, I prefer to use more battery and send less data to China (the stuff is full of spyware). Even with that, I charge it every three days but I don’t use it much (which is the goal)

about 3 days long (maybe 4)

Is there a way to mimic the experience on a "normal" android phone? Making everything b/w with monochrome setting is easy. But reducing framerate and maybe also reducing resolution? Maybe even put a filter over it? Anybody tried that?

You can reduce render resolution easily, it's available as the unrooted ABD command `adb shell wm size 1080x1920`. You don't need a computer for it either, you can use an app like Bugjaeger to create a loopback connection on most Wi-Fi networks.

It's really not the same. Eink is a completely different screen technology that physically moves ink particles around. The screen doesn't emit light, only reflects ambient light like paper.

The point is to reduce your desire to watch addictive videos, not to do something with display technology per se. I actually considered that a startup idea - Android fork targeted to restrain addictive content consumption via artificially lowered refresh rates, some color filters and targeted software.

Is this new? Because the product I saw like this before wasn't actually phone because it didn't take a SIM, was basically like Apple's old iPod Touch. And I don't see any copy in here about GSM bands, SIM tray, etc. Is the "news" here just that they now support Google Play?

I would jump at something like this in a second if it a) took a SIM and b) can run Android Auto for when I'm on the road.

EDIT: it helps to actually read, the copy does say : Cellular: 4G/LTE

Looks like the Android version here is pretty old, so I'd be worried about the viability of b).

They do offer a music-player version of the device, as shown here:

https://hisenseeink.com/products/hisense-touch-lite-e-ink-mu...

Very curious to hear experiences from anyone who has one of Hisense's e-ink phones. I recently bought a Boox android e-reader in this form factor, but I was eyeing this phone!

It’s a shame Boox violates GPLv2.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23735962

I'm a happy user of Boox Nova Air, this is news to me. Has anyone sued Boox? I'm looking at a new device, maybe an Air 3, but I do not want to get one if I'm subsidizing their legal costs.

Sadly there’s not a lot of money in defending open source.

Is it so incredibly important that it has to be said every time the brand is mentioned? Boox devices are good, and I don't think there is any other hardware that compares to what they offer.

Open source is a cause near to the hearts of many people on HN. So, yes.

I have a HiSense HiReader Pro that I picked up right when it came out. It's absolutely loaded with nonsense + makes zillions of requests to Chinese IPs and it takes ages to figure out how to disable / block it all.

It also only works on a single GSM band in the US (which to be fair, I knew before I bought it), but I was hoping that single band would be usable.

I went back to using a Kindle because the experience is so much better all around. Vaguely intrigued by the new Boox Palma though.

I was briefly looking at the Boox Palma - which appeared to be an e-ink smartphone. I then discovered that the marketing page never mentions 4G or 5G support - because it doesn't actually have a cellular modem.

I can see how most people would take that foregranted. Ouch.

There's also one without the phone part:

https://hisenseeink.com/products/hisense-hi-reader-e-ink-e-r...

I've looked at these a few times and I really want one, but not quite at that price.

This one notably really is a phone!

There's some good Android e-reader devices, for much cheaper. I nearly picked up a Boox Palma, which looks very slick. $300. I then found the Moaan Inkpalm lineup; the newest gen of their Inkpalm 5 has a decent rk3566 core and is $160.

This at $480 is a much steeper price, but for someone who is a strong reader it could make a lot of sense.

The Book Palma is great. I had been vaguely dissatisfied with other Boox devices--and it turns out, it was because they didn't have enough RAM and were too slow. The Palma is responsive enough to actually use for other things than reading. But, reading is the primary use case.

Yep my Palma works great as a pocket-size ereader that is also very capable for reading Wikipedia and web sites too. I typically use it tethered to my iPhone.

I picked up a Meebook M6 android e-reader for $170 and I've been enjoying it so far. As an e-book reader alone I would put it on par with a kindle, but the fact that I can access my local library's catalogue and use Pocket makes it much better option for me.

One thing that people tend to not expect for these e-ink smartphones is that their battery life, while good compared to normal phones, is nowhere near the "expected" battery life for an e-ink e-reader. This phone for example has a battery that lasts ~3-4 days, while a normal e-reader can last weeks.

That's an interesting point. Is this because of the modem and always-on background tasks / push notifications?

Yes. A dedicated eink reader usually goes into full suspend-to-RAM mode, between each page refresh.

Also, e-ink displays consume power when they update. It takes a lot of energy to change the state of the pigment cells, and no power when static. So the always updating, graphically busy interface of an Android phone (even if themed for eink) is much more power-demanding to render.

Yes, in the end these are (mostly) fully fledged android devices with all the baggage running in the background. Modem aside, wifi is usually the biggest battery consumer, keeping wifi off usually will significantly improve the battery life (which is true even for normal phones, but especially so for these e-ink phones).

Android is probably a big part of the problem here as the eInk phone manufacturer doesn't have the ability to refactor Android for ultra low power usage.

Even so, getting it to shut down as much as eReader would probably be very hard if it needs to be able to receive incoming phone calls.

NetGuard at f-droid would double my battery expectancy on an old Samsung A6 by blocking most connections

Related: The Light Phone https://www.thelightphone.com/ - uses E-Ink too

I really wanted to like the Light Phone. It's exactly what I want...except one of my biggest use-cases depends on a proprietary and almost assuredly ephemeral web service.

I want to do basically three things on a phone:

1. Calls and texts 2. Maps 3. Music and podcasts

But the only way to get audio files onto a Light Phone is via uploading them to the web dashboard[0]. I contacted support. There exists no other way, or at least not one they are willing to officially acknowledge. Sorry, I don't trust that a hipster minimalist cell phone startup is going to maintain that service for as long as I plan on using the phone.

Light Phone people, if you're reading this: don't be weird about it! The device has USB connectivity! Just let me plug in a damn cable and transfer files over! There is absolutely no reason to have this whole thing hinge on a web service that I assume you are paying good money to keep online and working. Transferring audio files via USB was a solved problem in the year 2000. [1]

Side note, I'm aware that maps likely also depends on a similar web service, but it doesn't irk me quite as much.

[0] https://support.thelightphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004824...

[1] And this isn't even mentioning that the only supported audio seems to be 256kbs CBR mp3s

Can't you enable ADB and install something in apk?

There's all sorts of things I could do.

Instead I decided to just not buy it and spend my money on a phone which doesn't engage in this kind of BS. (Ended up with a Fairphone 4.)

Looks like I'm not the only one that got intrigued by this phone from the comments in the NYT Smartphone article this morning ;)

YouTube is watchable on this thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA5dIN3aS-o&t=325s

Not as smooth as on a traditional phone, but maybe more usable than you would have expected for an eInk display.

I already have that on my Boox Note Air 3C and it is pretty handy. I can watch for hours without straining my eyes.

$500 USD is an absurd price for a "Phone" with such limited usability. Unless you're some edge-case who absolutely "Needs" the longer battery life, I really fail to see how this can justify a $200-$300 price premium over a low end Android phone.

On the one hand, you're right, the price seems absurd. On the other hand, I've only ever heard this argument from people who don't really want such a device anyway.

I don't own this phone, but I paid $500 for a Boox Note Air 2, which is an eink tablet that I use for notetaking and reading and replaced my ipad with it. The limited usability of these devices is a selling point, not a downside. But just because I want a device that does less doesn't mean that I want a device that feels cheap. I still want something sleek, well built and snappy. And eink screens aren't particularly cheap either. So $500 it is.

You would be surprised how much more comfy reading stuff is on such phone, over conventional ones.

Go live in a place with a lot of sunshine, and you'll get it. E-ink is absolutely the future for a huge part of the world.

One missing feature which caught my eye is water-resistance. It is pretty much standard on modern phones and for me it is critical. I still remember times when you can ruin your expensive iPhone by "water damage" not covered by the warranty.

> It is pretty much standard on modern phones

Only at a high end. Take a random midrange Oppo, Xiaomi, Huawei, Samsung until a few gens ago and they're not waterproof.

I'm still frustrated that Apple (or really, any manufacturer), for all their money, can't figure out how to make a water resistant laptop. I would bet top dollar that even Tim Cook has had a spill once.

> I'm still frustrated that Apple (or really, any manufacturer), for all their money, can't figure out how to make a water resistant laptop.

Depending on your luck and your laptop's vintage, many business class laptops offer(ed) keyboard spill protection. I think my HP ProBook 430 G3 had it, I've definitely spilled a lot of water once from a big bottle and it was mostly "fine". (The headphone jack didn't work but I don't remember if that was a pre-existing issue.) Iirc thinkpads may also offer it.

Tim Apple once said that he spent 80% of his time on iPad:

https://9to5mac.com/2014/07/17/apple-ceo-tim-cook-says-every...

So you are looking for a spill in that 20% of the time.

Watch your wallet.

yeah I have developed a ritual protocol of appropriate and unacceptable water glass shapes due to a fatidic incident which cost me a MacBook Air. It could have been prevented if Steve Jobs had had any interest in making laptops more resistant.

So, glasses whose mouth is wider than their bottom are prone to collapse because the centre of gravity is higher

anyone know how close the kernel/drivers are to mainline? loads of Linux epub/cbz/RSS/etc reader apps are already friendly to small screens, would be lovely if i could just throw a minimal OS on there and rsync my media onto it without going through hoops or fighting the vendor's OS.

How is it with Slack and email?

Email with outlook is fine. I imagine slack is also fine.

Width：79.50 mm - thats insane and clearly not comfortable to manipulate with.

How often do you have to charge it? Strange they don't mention it.

I want a phone like this but I'm not willing to pay $500 for it.

That's the part I don't get. I like the concept overall but I don't see the point of having high end specs. Like it has a 13MP camera for example. How do you view color HD pics or video on an e-ink screen?

Lots of people take pictures on their phone and then look at them on other devices.

There is always aliexpress, I suppose. I myself paid ~320$ total, for the 6/128GB version.

How do you like it? Do you use it day to day as your primary phone?

E-ink devices are going to be like fountain pens. Calling it now.

Relatively expensive with a dedicated niche audience? We're already there aren't we?

Why are e-ink displays still relatively expensive?

Because it's a single-supplier technology.

That's a huge premium for the E-ink screen.

Can’t wait to play Call of Duty on this thing

Not 5G! Shame on them.

... for what... so you can stream some 4k YouTube videos onto your e-ink screen?

For the coverage. Most network deployments nowadays are 5G, and older 3G and earlier are getting decommissioned/replaced.

They have another model that claims to have that. https://hisenseeink.com/products/hisense-a7-5g-e-ink-smartph...:

“It will support most 5G bands thanks to the T7510 chip with NSA/SA support.”

It sucks that the CCP makes all this innovation a nonstarter. If the CCP were to disappear the Chinese hardware hackers would benefit hugely and the West would even benefit from the added innovation/competition. I feel robbed in a way.

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