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NegativeK

> its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status).

I'm a tech worker in the public sector.

To be blunt: tax me more, please.

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Ok, big talker, step up:

Gifts to the United States

U.S. Department of the Treasury

Reporting and Analysis Branch 2

P.O. Box 1328

Parkersburg, WV 26106-1328

That's not how it works. Get Elon and friends to donate half his wealth and then we can talk.

Progressive taxation is a good idea...

Specifically, this is how it works.

Are Elon’s rocket and car company infringing on your well-being? What about the pensioners holding Tesla shares? Are they stifling your ability to come up with some funds for the public good?

They infringe if they don't pay their share of what is needed to provide for the common welfare, defense, etc.

They are paying their share, for every worker they pay the appropriate taxes on the wages and those taxes are there to provide the common welfare, defense etc. since they pay their workers quite a lot they probably pay more than needed, so not sure why you would single them out, many companies pay much less like Walmart etc, they pay so much lower salaries so therefore contribute way less taxes per person they need to work there, complain about those first.

Why is that amount their share, and not more or less? Corporate taxes are pretty low, and also capital gains, so I tend to think it is much less.

Oh, I forgot, poor victim Elon! The right-wingers pull out this rhetoric so consistently, it's a parody of itself every time. But now Elon Musk is a victim? Whose next? Trump?

It's not "their share", it's your fantasy of getting part of their money that you're trying to impose. None of that money is yours to decide the fate of it.

How do we pay for the enormous amount of common public goods, such as roads, a legal system, safety, security, education, health, NASA, etc etc, if we don't jointly pay for them?

And if we jointly pay for them, don't each of us have a share to pay?

(I think we both are in good faith. No need to imply I'm a thief or oppressor.)

That's a separate question. The fact that you want to do something doesn't make you automatically the owner of somebody's else money. You can't just say "I want to do X therefor it's fair that Elon Musk will pay for it, and if he doesn't, he is evil and must be jailed". There's nothing "fair" in this. It's not what "fair" means or ever meant. Especially given that Elon Musk is already paying for so much - and still you think it's "not fair" he doesn't pay more, with the sole foundation for this being that you want more.

> And if we jointly pay for them, don't each of us have a share to pay?

Yes, but despite them paying orders of magnitude more than you do, you still complain they don't pay their "fair share", the definition of "fair" being based solely on the fact that you want them to pay more. I don't see any justification for claiming this has anything to do with "fair".

> The fact that you want to do something doesn't make you automatically the owner of somebody's else money.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I am the owner of your money, in fact. Hand it over. Post your BTC here (nobody else touch it, it's mine).

> "I want to do X therefor it's fair that Elon Musk will pay for it, and if he doesn't, he is evil and must be jailed"

We are equal under the law and we all should pay for it, nobody treated differently.

> the definition of "fair" being based solely on the fact that you want them to pay more.

When did I tell you what my basis was?

The image of Musk whining 'it's not fair' like a 6 year old is pretty incredible, but in fairness to Musk, someone else is doing it. But for reasons unknown - why are you advocating for this complete stranger?

I just point out your pretense at "fairness" is nothing but deception, and you have to resort to clowning and ad-hominem attacks as a response, which indeed proves you don't have any proper argument beyond "me want!". If is not me and not Musk who cries childishly "not fair!" when things are not as you like, as you can easily witness, and others are reluctant to finance your wants.

Your surprise that somebody can object to untruth where it's not personally beneficial to him tells yet more about your approach to fairness.

GP said “tax me more.” Nothing is stopping him from paying more.

What he really means is tax me (and certain others I deem appropriate) more.

Nobody is stopping you from contributing more. In fact, contributions to charity are tax exempt.

But if you want to contribute more to the government directly, others here have pointed you to some good resources.

The individual wants his class to be taxed. Telling the individual they can simply pay more does nothing for everyone else in the class. Your reply is unserious.

Not only do I want everyone in my "class" to contribute more to society, everyone significantly above me should be contributing a larger share. This is the basis of progressive taxation.

If we're just airing what we think about taxation, I think people with low incomes should pay more than they do currently in taxes, so that everyone feels like they have skin in the game. People generally don't take as much care of something that was dropped in their laps as something that they had to work hard for.

Currently, over half of all federal personal income tax collected is paid by under 5% of taxpayers, and the bottom 50% of income earners as a whole pay under 3% of all federal income tax collected.

> and the bottom 50% of income earners as a whole pay under 3% of all federal income tax collected.

What percentage of annual cash flow in the USofA do they earn?

Is it more than 3%?

According to this source[0], the bottom 50% of income earners who paid 2.32% of all federal personal income taxes collected in 2020 comprised 10.18% of the share of income. So yes, it is more.

[0]: https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxe...

You're equating giving money to the government with contributing to society, which is not the same thing. Politicians will give your money to any cause that will get them reelected, be that vanity projects or cronies that contribute to their campaigns. That's not even the worst case, they can spend it on the military killing people, spying on the populace including you, or distributing it in some other unjust way.

If you want to actually contribute to society you are better off investing it in some productive way or giving away to people in need as directly as possible. Government is a necessary evil, don't give it a dime more than what's absolutely needed as it can get out of control with little room to escape.

Begging for a tax increase as a proxy for societal contribution is something else.

I work 60 hours a week and volunteer for 20 more.

Not only do I want everyone in my "class" to contribute at least as much as I do, I want them to actually contribute something, not just voidposting about how they have too much money and wish the government would take more of it.

The entire discussion seems to have veered into the unserious.

While true and a fair rebuttal to all higher tax suggestions, increased tax on people like OP would have a much larger effect than just them giving a bit more away.

I'll make you a deal in which both of us come ahead - pay my taxes for this year. I'll even go for federal only. If you're in, I can accept venmo, cash, btc or anything commonly accepted. Think about it - you get less money, as you wanted, the money go to the taxman, as you wanted, and I get a little bit for helping you.

Unless, of course, you, as usual, meant that it's me that is going to be taxed more? While you are already getting paid from my money?

Another way would be to ask for pay reduction. Same effect on the public money, much less friction and transactional expenses. I'm sure your boss can find a way to make it happen.

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