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Comment by emptysongglass | Hacker News Reader

I dislike how news sources are abusing the word recall. Recalling every Tesla on the road means an OTA patch. Most casual readers will assume recall to mean the car needs to be brought in for service.

Whatever your thoughts on Tesla, this is a scummy tactic.

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A recall that can be fixed with an OTA update is still a recall. The issue isn't that you have to bring in your car, it's that the government has determined the vehicle has a safety issue that it's forcing Tesla to fix. An OTA fix is convenient for the driver, but it doesn't change the fact the car had a safety problem that warranted government intervention.

Yup. If it was possible to run it offline, then the recall would sound very traditional. Which is to say it’s unsafe to drive, it has be recalled until it is fixed. How the fix is implemented seems irrelevant.

Tesla wasn't actually being forced. In the past, other automakers like Ford, GM, Porsche and Kia/Hyundai ran into the exact same problem. They just filed an inconsequential non-compliance petition to NHTSA because this issue is so minor and it would have been too expensive to fix --- for them.

Source: https://youtu.be/480yxR_kmIg?si=dThdJD2_QceCyF_E&t=161

The NHTSA calls it a recall.

PDF warning: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF

But that's now how most people view a recall. That's the point. It's clearly a move meant to drive clicks. A news source could write, a "software patch to fix blabla was sent out" but they instead opt for the more alarming language that has its roots in physical units of x item returning to a service center for service.

Using the proper definitions of the words is now considered a move meant to drive clicks. Very interesting take.

The word, "recall", has a myriad of definitions. In this particular use of the word, it has a historical basis in physical vehicle recalls to the service center. That an agency has since decided it also applies to OTA patches does not change this fact or how it is perceived by people at large.

It sounds like you should be upset at the agency and not the fact based reporting.

Are you OK with Tesla calling stuff auto pilot or Full Self Driving even if it is not a real auto pilot not a real full self driving ? For consistency with your argument I suspect we agree it should be called lane assist and SSD Sometime Self Driving.

More that the authors are conveniently getting tons more clicks by making no attempt to denote the low-impact of the recall when it's obvious that 95-99% of the population will only see the headline or will associate it with "like when Toyota's accelerator pedals were getting stuck".

I should probably complain loudly too, then, considering "Audi vehicles recalled" was an article title when mine had a recall for "passenger side camera may get foggy in cold weather".

Or when Lincoln sent me two pieces of paper "to be inserted into your owner's manual" as another safety recall.

They are using the very factual and context appropriate term that the agency responsible for issuing these orders is using.

The reason for this is that the OTA update is a _convenience_. If the OTA update fails or causes other issues Tesla is still required to bring the cars in and fix them as required and cannot attempt to treat related, associated, or casual errors and issues differently.

You're confusing agencies allowing this to happen as a luxury instead of understanding the teeth behind the policy.

> But that's now how most people view a recall.

Heh. Ironic. I remember (recall?) the good old argument used for calling something "Autopilot"...

Previous vehicles were recalled to the dealership for software updates. Is this sensationalism? It's "just" a software update after all, no need to scare consumers.

Recall is the correct choice of word here, but Ars' coverage of Tesla issues is incredibly disappointing because one of their writers really makes it clear in his articles that he loathes Tesla, at the expense of even pretending to be remotely neutral.

Continuing to write headlines on recalls like this does not do anyone favors though.

Tesla owners aren't impacted. They'll get an update.

Everyone else hears there's a recall for a car they don't own and won't care.

A cohort of online users will happily click and comment about their hatred of a car company that, quite frankly, nobody cares to hear about except other people who like commenting on this stuff.

All the while, the "recall" term keeps getting thrown out in headlines in a context that isn't life-or-death safety-critical, lessening it's impact on actual life-or-death safety concerns..

It is 2024 and a distinction is desperately needed.

The same type of advisory used for a defective steering mechanism that could cause serious injury/death should not be in the same grouping as a patch for a lousy UI decision that will likely be fixed as an OTA update in a couple weeks.

I stopped reading Ars years ago because the comments section is an echo chamber.

"Recall is the correct choice of word here, but Ars' coverage of Tesla issues is incredibly disappointing because one of their writers really makes it clear in his articles that he loathes Tesla, at the expense of even pretending to be remotely neutral."

Isn't this better?

They should have a separate term for this, like “over-the-air recall”. This sort of thing will happen more and more often as in-car computers become more relied upon.

Even safety recalls can be fixed OTA, at least in Tesla's case since they designed most components to be FW-updatable during MCU software updates.

The term needs to be something new.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

These are recalls plain and simple. The public perception of that requiring a dealer visit is just obsolete.

The combination of OTA updates and the potentially affected software now controlling vehicle operation/behavior/capability/safety etc makes it a recall for all intents and purposes.

Just because the news tends to sensationalize doesn't mean everything they say is clickbait. IMHO accurately reporting these recalls is a public service helping get everyone on the same page WRT what OTA updates actually are.

Lincoln had a safety recall that consisted of them sending me two pieces of paper with esoteric information about seats.

Is that scummy, too?

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