Ask HN: How would you approach mastering a skill ASAP?
They say it takes 10,000 to become an expert. At 12 hours a day, that would take 2.28 years…how would you apply yourself to achieve the 10k hours? How long do you think it would take you?
If thr goal is to master the skill, then it takes as long as it takes and there shouldn't be a deadline.
If you need to pick this skill up in order to accomplish a certain task, then mastery isn't what's required. This is a challenge we face regularly as software engineers. There is an art in deciding which rabbit holes to plunge down and which to step over.
My process for doing so is roughly to survey the field in a broad and shallow manner to understand the context, evaluate what parts of it are most relevant to the matter at hand, and then study them in depth. But try to keep it tethered to the task you set out to accomplish. The minimum amount of information you'll need to capture is probably still a lot, so don't put more on your plate than you can eat.
Saved, bookmarked, framed.
Slow is steady and steady is fast. It feels paradoxical but, at least in my experience, it just is what it is.
Either you never change your mind on what you master, or there is a implicit process by which it is changed, and I would be very surprised to learn that time/effort/progress do not play a role in that calculation.
A few years ago I was deeply struck by an image of the late Grant Imahara's workbench [1]. It was cluttered with tools, notes, and unfinished business.
That's what I expect my desk to look like when I die, too.
The big takeaway is that improving the quality of your practice, instruction, and mentoring is the biggest force multiplier. You can become very good at most things by experimenting and trying different things until you find what works, but you can skip past much of the trial and error with an excellent coach.
The problem is that you're not going to find a world-class person to teach and mentor you. You can often find high-level people who write books or teach lessons, but the top talent is usually either focused on their craft or retired. There are a lot of influencers who want to sell you on the idea that they're the best (or that they have learned from the best and will teach you like Tim Ferriss) but the actual results from those programs are rarely worthwhile.
The best thing I've found is to practice frequently and then aggressively engage with communities surrounding that thing. Post your work, participate in other people's projects when you can, join communities, or give presentations and ask for feedback if you can. Enter competitions early and often so you can realize what the best actually looks like in your field (and hopefully be motivated to get there).
I haven't seen much success from people who just isolate and put hours into a problem. Even the famous "self-taught" people pull a lot from resources available to them.
This is it. The way you get in touch with the top talent is to be a part of the community surrounding whatever you want learn.
Your question aside for a moment, for what it's worth, "they" do not say this, that's Malcolm Gladwell misinterpreting research, according to the researchers themselves. See e.g. https://www.inc.com/nick-skillicorn/the-10000-hour-rule-was-... or google `10000 hours gladwell researchers` or what have you and you should find plenty of skepticism and/or failed replication results. My recollection is that Freakonomics or Planet Money also did an episode with the researchers explaining what their data actually said (IIRC the takeaways were more about deliberate practice). I'm sure others in the field may have more to add on what the science actually says (so your question is still of course a good one).
This goes for sports, hobbies, tech skills, everything. If you're just at home and practicing by yourself, you can get competent, but without a bar to assess yourself against you have no idea if you're expect or just ok.
Furthermore, without the bar of "expert" to measure yourself against, it's hard to identify where your weaknesses are, and where to put effort.
Tech example - I started using ansible at home to automate things. I'm competent and can build a role for a new service pretty quickly. Am I good? No. Do I know how ok/good/great I am? Not really. It's pretty hard to measure. I know some of the patterns I use are designed for home use, not large scale deployments, but more practice isn't going to get me there.
It comes down to coaching, measuring, improving against a known standard, not just 10k hours of repetition.
To answer the actual "how to do it ASAP" part - I'd find a known expert who wanted to teach me, then learn from the master. With a great teacher you get the benefit of all their 10K hours of wisdom, provided in digestible chunks and a focused learning plan.
The truth is that the people who do not have the aptitude to start wash out before they reach 10,000 hours, making this a self-reinforcing belief. That said, you can always become better, and you have the opportunity to define your own rules such that you can become recognized in something in which is suited to you.
So, what is your goal?
Do keep in mind that ideally Learning should come before Memorizing.
This book was recommended to me a couple years ago: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_First_20_Hours/zM-L...
It has some guidelines and examples of how to go about getting 'good enough' with different skills in 20 hours to feel ... if not confident, at least comfortable in knowing what you don't yet know and how to get better.
1. If you don't have tremendous passion don't bothering thinking about mastering it. Be ready for practicing to be your new life style.
2. Have a picture of what you want to become (so you can make practice plans accordingly)
3. Have clear definition about what's productive practice and what's useless practice (with productive practice you can get great progression even if you only practice 1-2 hours a day)
4. If possible find a master in person and learn (I was lucky enough to have studied with a jazz legend, the first time I directly heard the "true" sound from a tenor saxophone in front of me is life changing)
5. The start is always the hardest, you're severely limited by your lack of skills, you won't feel free (especially for skills about expression, like music). Have to grind past that
"mastering" is a tricky word, it kinda imply you need third party acknowledgement in order to become a "master". In my case my goal is highly personal and might not be called a "master" by some people when I reached my goal. It all comes down to personal goal I think.
Somebody doing something for 12 hours/day is losing out on free time that makes life worthwhile. If you're Serena/Venus Williams, maybe giving up a normal life for mastery is worth it. But I imagine there are people that trained roughly the same number of hours and aren't operating at a level where they could comfortably tell people "I gave up years of my life to be able to do this".
Most people involved in an activity day to day don't think of themselves as having mastered something.
However, people on the outside of something who want to be on the inside may feel that if they can't demonstrate mastery, they won't be invited in.
Becoming an expert in anything is going to be full of challenging days where you question why you're doing this, just want to give up, get distracted, etc. Having others to lean on (and be leaned on) can help get everyone through those challenges. Additionally, knowing you're part of a group may give you some sense of responsibility do you won't be as likely to slack off.
Lastly, in my opinion, working with others and building friendships along the way makes the entire journey more fun.
* Break down key area and create a list of relevant topics to understand and relevant study materials, gpt can help * For each resource, skim & write summary on material, * Read deeply or discard & take atomic notes on new/key info then write hand written summaries after each page or chapter, * Re-read/skim notes and previous pages when revisiting material * Alternate topics/key areas interleaving and noting their similarities & relationships, gpt can help * For interleaving, spend 20-30mins a key area when studying * Transfer paper notes to digital & outline * Rewrite again in 1doc and elaborate, gpt can help * Elaborate further with how&why questions, gpt can help * Answer the how&why questions, gpt can help * Identify multiple concrete examples and analogies, gpt can help * Find counter arguments, gpt can help * Read other resources, wikipedia reviews, websites, blogs, & repeat the above * Give gpt notes “whats missing?” * Add/create/organize visuals/concept maps/mind maps for dual coding, dall-e can help * ?how to add sensory experience and engage more of brain when learning # pragthinking * Watch relevant videos for more dual coding, * Mediate on ideas * Teach someone or speak it, or Feynman it * Create test, gpt can help * Create
If you outgrow your teacher, i.e. you have stopped learning from them, find another expert teacher.
I say “coaches” as plural because chances are mastery is going to take work in multiple areas simultaneously (ie nutrition, mental health, physical therapy, etc…).
It may take 10k hours, but if you rush it, it's possible you'll never get there.
For example, when training olympic weightlifting, if you fail your third attempt, you just stop or put less weight to ensure a successful lift, otherwise you risk fixing the wrong movement.
You cannot keep at it, you just get worse, rest is necessary at that point before you try again.
If I wanted to get to the next level relatively quickly I would need to start doing more specific strength training. I'm much more focused on technique at the moment, I find weightlifting training relaxing.
Since it's a hobby for me, I just slowly go increasing my PRs by every once in a while (once or twice a year) slightly bumping the reference weight for training. Kind of like an aspirational PR. Once it feels and looks right across the whole range of training, I try a new PR, if successful, slightly move the target for the next time.
We call them masters because the have studied the subject for many years.
How do I approach increasing my piano skills to play and master a piano Rachmaninoff prelude ASAP?
How do I approach sharpen my Golf skills to get invited to the April's Golf Masters Tournament ASAP?
The approach is: Set aside 30 years and enjoy the journey.
Immerse yourself in their world and surround yourself with them on a daily basis if possible (where/how they work, where they train, where they hang out, what they do)
Create a super tight, iterative feedback look where you can make measurable improvements daily to your current skills, ideally with a testing or competitive component with scoring system or methodology - trial/error and experiment, but quickly
Debrief after these sessions on how it went, what was improving, what could be better, what feels completely off and difficult. Take appropriate time off to digest what you did and avoid burnout
Supplement with theory, books, video review (if applicable) and studying in addition to training and performing so you become a student in the craft
The goal is to get to a point of exponential acceleration and improvement to get you to mastery quicker by determining the pareto 20% skillsets and field experience ("inputs") that create 80% of the output value to get you to that 95 percentile, and double down on that once you've figured it out (and have validated that from the masters).
I personally think chasing mastery without deep burning passion for the thing is dumb and a waste of time because most top performers are probably 90-95 percentile pseudo-masters anyway and just lucky/well-connected. You might hit a point where the masters possess something you don't and never will, so it's crucial to understand that early (like a physical or genetic trait that you are born with or optimized for idk). Assuming everything above is in place, and you have unlimited $ and time commitment to make it work, I estimate a dedicated and focused 8 hours, every day would probably take 1.5-2 years to get to mastery, but YMMV.
If you're interested or even better yet passionate, you will naturally circumvent blockers (e.g. say 'no' to things blocking your goal without hesitation). You will naturally prioritize accordingly.
People who need 'systems' to do their personal stuff most likely aren't that into it. Systems are for businesses and managers. Sure, they can help - but. . .people who are experts are most likely interested in what they're doing and have worked at it tirelessly - because they're passionate or deeply interested in it. They will naturally gravitate to learning/doing the thing that they later on become experts at.
Einstein had a quote about how learning is a lot easier if you're passionate or interested. He was right.
Have you never procrastinated on a passion project?
There's also some psychodynamics involved where certain activities impose a strain on you. After doing them too much, even if they're a complex carbohydrate form of fun, you'll eventually need a break in the form of simple carb fun (e.g., video games -- dead simple ones). Which sucks; I wish carrots could taste like candy.
https://stepsandleaps.wordpress.com/2017/10/17/feynmans-brea...
You're right that this is a bit romantic, but nonetheless true.
I've never procrastinated with my main passion (music) - like a planet circling the sun, it might be out of my orbit for a bit, but i always come back to it. Not because someone told me to, or because I had a calendar reminder or a Kanban board.
Saying 'no' is hard, esp when you're younger I think (due to feelings of obligation) - but as you get older you realise that a lot those obligations can be dropped and that your life is short. It's also a lot easier to say no to distractions, if you're passionate. Less guilt about it.
There's a lots of techniques/hacks: Make what you want to achieve visible (e.g. surround yourself with carrots/only buy carrots).
Agree with you that breaks are necessary, but then you can enforce that by buying a limited amt of junk food for your pantry, so you don't spin out of control.
War of Art is a great book if you need some good cheerleading. . .but i read it, I didn't really need it because I'm fortunate to having something I love to do. I know that's not the case for everybody.
I often feel like Im moving too slow, but have zero bandwidth to allocate further. My first milestone is either a profitable side project or job transition, which ever happens first. Im close.
He had some good pointers and had a memory grandmaster video call with some more. 20min video. https://youtu.be/QkTmAyO_qfE
He has many other videos. Drumming, jujitsu, etc. maybe one of those will apply.
Since this isn’t specific, it’s difficult to give advice. Sounds more like a writing prompt.
I meant about the advice on learning he gives seemed decent. Exercise while learning helps with retention. The episode was a joke, he got a few softballs and half the interview turned out to be in English. No idea about jujitsu or the timeline and haven’t watched it. Just examples since op gave zero details.
But you need to first identify what you are really aiming to do.
You're not going to get 12 good hours of practice every day. At least half of those hours are going to end up pointless. They might be beneficial at the start, but that's just beginner gains and will fall off.
That 10k number is discredited https://www.6seconds.org/2022/06/20/10000-hour-rule/
In some cases there are no experts so you can become an expert (as much as anyone) very quickly. Say writing prompts for LLMs. (Nobody has done that for 10,000 hours)
A 35 year old athlete has no change of breaking into the NFL or NBA but they can be one of the founders of a new sport, only later will there be a system to turn young athletes into champions.
On the other hand there are cases you could spend 10k hours and still suck or maybe you are a master of something nobody cares about. (been there… done that)
Just played pickleball on vacation for the first time. It's the second-chance for a whole bunch of over-the-hill tennis seniors, but boy, are they unpleasant people!
I argue that mastery =/= the very best. You can't get into the NBA at 35 because you didn't master Basketball, you can't get in because hundreds of others have also mastered it and have other advantages over you, physcically.
But I guess it comes down to how we interpret "master".
>maybe you are a master of something nobody cares about.
Tree falls... I guess it's another question up for debate. I don't necessarily think a master's value lies in how others value it. Especially since trends are so fleeting.
Skills are different and most don't actually take anywhere near 10,000 hours to learn. Figure out exactly what you want to learn/build and what the end goal is.
Is it to make money with said skill? Is it to become a community expert? Is it for a personal hobby that few would even know/care about?
If I were forced to battle zombies each night I would learn zombie physics right quick. I would practice my shotgun moves all day.
Learning is usually 90% motivation, 9% talent, and .9% technique.
I would call that prefetching.
There are so many things that can't truly be mastered in a lifetime, much less a mere 10000 hours.
Either way, extreme ambition may be involved but it's not actually required.
If ASAP is a factor, that would tend more to the extreme though, but I would say that the same tasks required to achieve the level of mastery expected at 10000 hours will lead to a higher level of accomplishment if spread out over more than 2.28 years.
What you really want to do if you can is to put in the 10000 hours (or preferably 100000 or more) in areas where others have hardly done anything yet (or just can't compare), so you will have something exceptional to offer fairly early in your journey, and build momentum to surpass the state-of-the-art in the long run before very much complete mastery has yet occurred.
Especially for things which complete mastery can not be expected to occur, whether you know it or not.
Mastering a bunch of related little skills takes years and dedication to become a professional in your field.
It is on this exact subject.
The actual number is vastly different depending on the specific field, and what you count as hours spent. E.g., in the ~decade it took me to get to top international ranks of alpine ski racing, if you count just time 'on the hill', it was probably 15K hours, but if you subtract time on the lifts, it was 3k, and time on track in my best event, it was <100 hours, but if you add in physical training, running, weights, etc, it was probably 30K hours).
The same goes for becoming an expert software programmer, sportscar racer, or other skills I've gained. In some, I'm far under the 10k hours, and others far over, and a HUGE amount depends on what you count. E.g., in starting out sportscar racing with Autocross events, I learned some bad habits that needed to be unlearned, but I learned a lot about just organizing, packing, & prepping for an event. So how do those events count? Do we count the days prepping before the event & traveling to it?
Yes, "seat time" or "inside the helmet" time counts. But those "10k" numbers are BS. Some learn faster than others, faster in some sections of the knowledge base vs others, better/worse training programs exist, better/worse coaches, etc.
The elements I've found critical are:
Find the absolute best teachers/coaches/mentors that you can. You will need to learn something, and I've found it's best if you can get it straight from the top. They are often not available, and there are often some deep experts that are obscure, you just have to find them and.or luck into them. OFC, you don't know how to judge from the position of a novice, but look for a focus on understanding how it all works, vs anything flashy (in fact the more anti-self-promotional they are...).
Practice time with good feedback. Use every tool at your disposal to get actual feedback on whether you are hitting your marks or not. The tighter the feedback loop, the better. Having video feedback is better than not, if you can watch it instantly, it's better than in the evening, etc. Actual instrumentation so you can see live data can also be critical, but use it to improve your internal sense of whatever is being measured, don't use the readout.
Good, but not great, equipment. Poor equipment will give you bad habits, so get advice on what is good enough to prevent that. But don't spend on the top-shelf equipment until you really understand how your middle-of-the-road equipment is holding you back. This will be different for each person. As you gain mastery, you'll need to focus on what equipment improvement will produce what quantified result for what costs (dollars, upgrade time, re-learning time, etc.).
Have fun!! Do not make it a slog. There will always be dreary and discouraging days, but it the fun days that keep you going. Enjoy the process!!