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Comment by oflannabhra | Hacker News Reader

I really like Joanna Stern, and how she approaches reviews like this. I’ve watched her review, The Verge’s, and MKBHD’s unboxing video.

However, the best review I’ve found that actually transmits what is possible and what it is like to use is Brian Tong’s 55 minute review video: https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4

I’m not familiar with him, but unlike other reviews I’ve seen, he spends less time evaluating or summarizing, and more time trying to actually use the device. I didn’t even realize that you can seamlessly use your Mac to control your visionOS apps, for example.

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Good review. Most interesting part was at 43:00 discussing the ergonomics and weight, which is the real question for everyone hoping to make this a daily driver.

He said he could wear it 45 mins before needing to take it off, that it was overstimulating so you need to slow down how quickly you use apps and move things on screen, and that gestures also were fatiguing. You could tell he was trying to be fair but positive.

Headsets just haven’t cracked this nut yet, and tho tech may advance somewhat, they may be limitations inherent to the form factor. Even if it gets really light weight, the issues of overstimulation, headaches, and the amount of neck movement implied may keep these products in a niche. (I say this as someone super excited about AVP)

For everyone used to using their computers all day long wanting to do it in a headset, don’t throw your macbooks away just yet.

I've regularly done 2+ hours of light activity (e.g. mini golf, social hangouts) with my Quest 3 without issues, though I will note this is with a third-party head strap specifically designed to be way more ergonomic and comfortable than anything first-party from Meta or Apple [1].

[1]: https://www.bobovr.com/products/bobovr-m3-pro

A lot of the physical downsides here are basically self-inflicted by companies trying really hard to hide the "nerd factor" necessary for comfort, to the detriment of the actual user experience.

Yeah industrial design and ergonomics tend not to have the same goals. Personally I was able to use a Quest 2 for ~1hr without too much issue, but it's not something I'd want to do on the regular.

The big product marketing question is what niche do headsets fit in, and thus whats the ideal single session and daily usage goal for a headset?

If it's about replacing laptops or another high usage scenario, that's a pretty high bar, definitely too high for the next 1-2yrs. I imagine some people at Apple wore dummy see-through goggle ergo tester units of varying weights around all day to get at these numbers :) Wonder what they came back with. Even still, that only gets at weight vs the perceptual ergonomics, skin-feel, etc.

The issue I see with headsets is that there may not be a lot of improvement possible without compromising durability or other factors necessary when going to market. E.g. what if they can't get it below ~400g (making AVP ~40% lighter), but to make the headset comfortable for most people for the usage scenario that makes them mass market (e.g. 2h+ sessions daily) requires ~250-300g?

its not really self inflicted when it literally determines how many sales you will have. Plenty of people are put off of VR because of the form factor. Quest looks like a nerdy toy, which does indeed influence who buys and/or uses it

Everyone I know even those who are into VR and even those who WORK in VR have zero interest in working with a headset of any kind on.

And those who work in VR report their coworkers and just about everyone they talk to customer wise feels the same way.

I know there are people who really want to, or think they do, but most would rather just use screens until maybe such a time the form factor becomes a pair of eye glasses.

Is the problem "working in VR" or is it "with a headset on", though?

I think it's completely reasonable to say that this stuff is only going to continue to get lighter and more comfortable every generation. What's that balance of interest going to look like when a headset's eventually got the same weight and form factor as, for example, big ski goggles?

> Is the problem "working in VR" or is it "with a headset on", though?

IMHO both. As for form factor lots of people already opt for contacts over glasses for comfort. I think ski googles are right out for anything that's not recreation or industry/application specific.

As for being in VR people really do like the real word lol. Going in and out of VR is a bit of an ordeal. Anecdotally I like taking small breaks from looking on my screen during the work day. Frequently. I look outside at the trees, at my cats, stuff on my desk, and etc when I'm thinking. If I have to "go in and out of VR" to do that or just not be in VR I'm going to just not be in VR.

For it to catch on mainstream for productivity and day-to-day it's gonna have to be like eye or sunglasses with seamless AR. Via something like retinal projection perhaps. I feel like Google was onto all this hence the Google Glass.

I think the "overstimulation" thing is a bit of a sleeper issue.

At first people think "wow it's so awesome I can be sitting on the moon while I browse the web". But after a bit of time you just get tired, and I think it's precisely because your whole brain is working in overdrive to understand the unnatural environment you are in. None of this manifests explicitly but at the end of it, when people are faced with the choice of putting the headset on or not, they just "feel" like it's a lot of effort.

I say all this as someone who does regularly spend 1-2 hours working in Immersed with multiple giant screens up. And I love it as a break, a way to focus or just relieve the boredom of working in the same space day in day out. But even I feel this effect of it being tiring and not keen to do it for 8 hours a day. And the minute you say that, you lost the use case of this being your "only" computer / replacing your laptop, so it's actually kind of crucial to its central justification as a replacement for a computer or a 'new kind' of computer.

The fatigue will morph into buyer's fatigue.

This is headset, app and person dependent. I've done 8 hours in Elite: Dangerous (sat down, can't remember the headset) and well over 4 hours in Fallout 4 VR (stood up and moving around, Valve Index).

Having demoed VR at my old office I can tell you that the range of reactions varies from an immediate "nope" and having to take the headset off to being able to stay in it for a significant amount of time with no discomfort.

I started watching the video, and at 0:40 he asked Siri to "close all my apps". At that point my own iPhone's Siri enthusiastically explained to me how I can close all the apps on my phone.

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