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Comment by GeoAtreides | Hacker News Reader

PSA: take a look at CDC's symptoms for ADHD: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html

No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them... Actually, reading all those symptoms really puts into the light the 'disorder' part in the ADHD.

And here's a philosophical question to ponder: should we change[1] to fit society's expectations or should society adjust itself to our needs? Should we take drugs so that we can be 100%, not even one percent less, productive 9-5 because that's what we're supposed to do?

[1] literally microdosing amphetamine

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I see where you're coming from, but comments like this are why it's taken me 30 years to understand there was something not exactly right with me. It doesn't help anyone because ADHD is something no one has completely understood, especially those that do not have it, and keep muddying the waters at any chance they get.

In my experience, if it has any value, ADHD is also lack of motivation to start new cool projects [1], despite you telling me that I'm wrong. Sorry for being curt, but I somehow have to add disclaimers and clarify every time I talk about it. It's a bit tiring.

Re: 9-5: that's also nonsense. Medication helps if you work in a cubicle, as well as to work on flexible hours and no bosses like I've had the luck to do lately. It does not necessarily make you into an effective drone.

1: The story is much more complicated, as it often is. I used to love starting new projects. 30 years of starting and never finishing does have its toll on the psyche, and I just internalised I am a lazy bastard that will never amount to anything, so I just stopped altogether. What does the CDC say about it?

I just accepted never finishing anything I guess? I still enjoy the starting, and the never finishing part mostly comes from not wanting to do tedious work.

I do find that as I get older the point where the work grows tedious increases. I’ve spent years on a project, and while not finished it’s certainly usable.

I didn't exactly mean getting bored after a year. I mean losing the motivation after one day.

I have never stuck to a single side project for more than a week until my diagnosis, however small.

Of course telling yourself that you're a "lazy bastard" is going to take its toll.

But that association is an artifact of culture, and something we can change. Should change.

Wanted to note that the pattern of starting and never finishing projects maybe fits the CDC symptoms around difficulty directing one's attention. Potentially then a lack of motivation to start new projects could be a common experience of people with undiagnosed ADHD later in life, but it is perhaps less common for those without the accumulated guilt of past experiences (speaking hypothetically and without expertise).

I empathize with how the complexity of these experiences and their knock-on effects make understanding what is happening with ourselves difficult.

I don't care about society's expectations. I just want a fulfilling life. My procrastination and lack of motivation is a detriment. If microdosing amphetamine will get me there, I'm all for it.

Maybe this is a throwaway remark, but FYI there is some evidence that microdosing amphetamine and possibly some other stimulants is more dangerous than a normal dose, in that it can have permanent undesirable effects:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stims/comments/3mbp3n/be_very_caref...

This has no bearing in reality. Furthermore, the others in this thread are referring to therapeutic doses of amphetamine, not microdosing literally.

The level of nonsense perpetuated on that site based on rat studies is absurd.

> No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them...

Starting projects isn't the issue (personal experience w/ ADHD) - following through and finishing them is, which is listed in various ways under the inattentive section

I've got plenty of new project folders, draft blog posts, plans written down, database schemas, etc - but no shipped results. This is the main issue for me. Starting a project is easy, working on it is the issue!

> And here's a philosophical question to ponder: should we change[1] to fit society's expectations or should society adjust itself to our needs? Should we take drugs so that we can be 100%, not even one percent less, productive 9-5 because that's what we're supposed to do?

Should we? Absolutely not! There's loads of value in people with different brain wiring. "Think outside the box" is our default setting!

Do we have to if we don't want to starve? Until we live in a post-scarcity world with infinite food and shelter.. unfortunately we're gonna have to.

> plenty of new project folders, draft blog posts, plans written down, database schemas, etc - but no shipped results. This is the main issue for me. Starting a project is easy, working on it is the issue!

You've done the fun parts. Isn't that enough to hit a good ratio of satisfaction-to-time-consumed ?

Unfortunately satisfaction-to-time-consumed doesn't pay any bills or fill the cupboards with food

In the ideal world aye absolutely, in this reality the time was wasted

Not to quibble, but let's face it then, that GitHub (et al.) is chock full of evidence of time wasted. False starts galore.

Depends on the creator really. It's a waste of time for me personally because I'm supposed to be grinding down some debts, paying the bills, and making sure there's food on the table. As I'm working freelance and billing hourly anything that doesn't earn cash directly or have the potential to be a new income source takes resources away from that goal.

Once my finances are more stable I'll be much more free to tinker with fun projects rather than focusing on potential business/income projects.

To be a bit more clear I only mean it's timewasting for me, not for humanity as a whole! I highly encourage anyone without my current constraints to code stuff for the fun of it without worrying about false starts or failed projects! :)

The longer I think about it, the more it bothers me.

I once had a psych explain to me that the main reason many people treat ADHD, is not for themselves, but because of how others treat them.

No where I go there I am, and I will always piss people off.

The social model of disability can be useful, but it has its limits. Unmedicated-me pisses me off too.

>or should society adjust itself to our needs?

Yes of course this one.

But until then I need to feed my family and not get fired for not working. And I'm not talking the difference between 99 and 100 [and getting fired]. I'm talking almost 0 to 100, meaning paralyzed with dread from starting any significant task.

Since receiving an ADHD diagnosis and being medicated, your latter point was something that constantly had me putting away my meds for weeks/months at a time. My heart rate has been permanently elevated and I'm watching my diet with a microscope so my blood pressure doesn't skyrocket.

It honestly feels sick that I take this drug not to necessarily feel better (though I will concede that I can handle more of my passion projects on Adderall) but in order to best fit a standard established by business magnates like Henry Ford.

I agree that the over-emphasis on medication as the only treatment for ADHD can be damaging. On the other hand, the jump to "I don't need to change" overlooks a very depressing reality: a lifetime of being told you're inadequate because you lack the focus to be reliable in school, work, or life is definitely impacting your psyche on a daily basis.

The people I know who have ADHD and are doing fine were diagnosed at a very young age and were medicated or otherwise built strong coping skills. They don't have any of the emotional baggage. I think it's important to think of ADHD not just as an executive function disorder but as the lifetime of trauma that accrues when, like you said, society's expectations don't line up with what you're capable of delivering without additional support.

The more we overlook the emotional/psychological aspect of ADHD, the more people are going to continue to suffer, and meds might help many people reach a place where they can work through those feelings, but it's just a tool.

I agree wholeheartedly. We have rampant drug problems plaguing society but within the white collar and academic world amphetamine is a safe substance for the “unmotivated”. I have trouble agreeing with that.

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