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Comment by mft_ | Hacker News Reader

Honestly, I’m not sure about “not what they used to be”: I don’t think Roombas have ever been very good.

The early ones were noteworthy for being novel, but (IMO as an early adopter) weren’t very good at cleaning. About ten years later I experienced someone else’s (then) modern Roomba, and it was still essentially the same crappy product, randomly banging into walls and struggling with carpet edges.

When the Roborock appeared with LIDAR, it was like the future in comparison, and frankly what Roomba should have already delivered years before.

When an established company with a big market share and opportunity for a technology lead is so out-innovated, it suggests that something is fundamentally rotten.

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> Roborock appeared with LIDAR

LIDAR is indeed a game changer, but Roborock was far from the first manufacturer to use it in botvacs.

The first Roborock with LIDAR was released in 2019 and I remember getting a Neato botvac with LIDAR in the early 2010s.

Sure; apologies for not providing a comprehensive history of the space - I was just speaking from my (limited) experience.

Has anyone innovated in the direction of privacy? "This is not a connected device, it does not talk to the cloud, there are no privacy considerations because we don't receive any of your data and never will".

Probably not, because that is a niche interest. We both know that. I’m not salty about it. But come on, get off the soapbox.

That's not true at all. Consumer reports often has privacy as a quality category in device judging. Clearly many people care about privacy _in addition_ to other concerns.

Yes, assuming this isn't vaporware. They're supposed to start shipping in March. https://maticrobots.com

Edited to add this quote from the website:

Matic's intelligence is localized on the device, and it never sends any of your data to the cloud for processing. That means no user information is ever sold, shared, or even collected in the first place.

I bought into the Eufy ecosystem on the same premise, but it's still internet connected, so all you really get is a pinky swear that they're not copying your data for their own purposes. Just because it's on-device doesn't mean it's not also elsewhere.

Anoth quote from the website:

> The HEPA bag is designed to hold about a week’s worth of debris with daily vacuuming and mopping. Replacement frequency will vary based on your usage.

The "membership" (ie. prepaid refills) is advertised at $180. The best-case scenario is you're trading the always-online smart appliance debacle for the overpriced ink cartridge debacle. Pick your poison.

https://valetudo.cloud is a project which allows you to use many vacuums without connecting to the cloud.

Not directly. Valetudo exists though, it's a custom firmware you can flash to a lot of different models that is privacy focused.

It doesn't even have to be a privacy angle, but complexity. There is nothing I would actually want a robot vacuum to do that requires a network connection, and few things that would even benefit from it (e.g. makes firmware updates easier, which you mostly shouldn't have to/want to do anyway).

I like starting it up automatically when I leave the house. For that you need automation and network connectivity

But not necessarily internet connectivity.

That's true.

I picked up a Roborock E4 a few years back, both because it was relatively cheap and a couple thorough reviews indicated it was one of the better devices out there. I initially spent a couple hours trying (and failing) to connect it to the Android app, only to discover (out of frustration) that pressing the start button on the unit would clean just fine! I was absolutely relieved that it wouldn't be uploading anything anywhere, the only "downside" was that I couldn't indicate which areas/rooms to ignore, although I'm not sure that would have mattered much since I constantly move things around.

I have no idea if any other models run without smartphone/tablet setup but if so, that would potentially eliminate any privacy issues ;)

Maybe it's time to create a public spreadsheet with a list of models that run without a smartphone, and potentially any downsides to doing so...

I bet 99% people of who buy privacy invading products do not care. Yes, I know that HN loves to go on and on about privacy invasion. Yes, many educated people will tell you that they don't like companies monetising their personal info and habits, but if you watch their actions, they do not care.

I don't care.

I have a Roborock. I genuinely don't care if the Red Army knows how dirty my apartment is.

I've had the LiDAR on three Neato Botvacs fail over the past 7 years. In Norway robot vacuums have to last for 5 years, so I essentially got a new robot every couple of years for free. Probably the reason they went out of business.

I think they did a great job. But VSLAM was a mistake. The fact that the robot is not reliable at navigating unless you have all the lights on in your house is just stupid.

LIDAR is clearly superior. There’s a reason every reasonable competitor is using it, even on very cheap models.

I’d be happy to go back to them but I’m not touching them again until they have LIDAR.

“Yeah, but humans have two eyes and they do just fine!” /s

"Yeah, but have you tried cleaning the house blind folded!!?" /s

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