Comment by reacharavindh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by reacharavindh | Hacker News Reader

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I’m going to answer your “financially nonsensical” argument from personal situation.

I live in the Netherlands. Sure, we have a reliable power grid that doesn’t go offline for hours or any frequently to make a case for grid backup, but the power companies here charge heck of a lot of money for power. Think about it. The utility company commissions a solar farm (lower cost than roof top solar), but surely hire a 3rd company to operate the farm ($), and then the utility company wants to make $ for their shareholders, therefore, we end up paying a lot of € to cover these.

Now, I have as manay panels as I could on my roof (10) that generates more than my average use in the Summer. I run a heat pump that can heat & cool and Ioperate it when the sun is shining. I do laundry when the sun is shining. Because of net metering, my grid usage practically cancels out against my solar energy production. When the net metering subsidy goes away, I’ll install a reasonably sized LFP battery at home to smooth out day/night patterns, and possibly covering the occasional cloudy days right after a sunny day. No power costs from April to September already pays the cost of my panels in just 5 years. It is free money(as in I save it from going from my pocket to the utility company and their shareholders).

So, it does make sense. Atleast in many parts of the world. If you live in a part of the world with super reliable grid _and_ low prices, or you’re so rich as to not care, then probably, it may not make sense to you :-)

I was just talking about it with some friends from South Africa. They said almost every household there sort of needs to be energy independent because the power company is in the ruin. So, solar + batteries it is. What would you do otherwise?

>Think about it. The utility company commissions a solar farm (lower cost than roof top solar), but surely hire a 3rd company to operate the farm ($), and then the utility company wants to make $ for their shareholders, therefore, we end up paying a lot of € to cover these.

You missed the largest reason home solar can be competetive and that is taxes. 11 cents per kWh and 3 cents sustainability charge and then 21% VAT over the cost price + taxes. And then the government mandates the energy companies have to buy your energy for the same price they sell you energy.

So as with many thing here it only makes sense because the government has completely distorted the market.

I would have thought taxes on electricity would be lower because in an indirect way it contributes to cost of business in the country. But, I am surprised.

Now, let the tech mature for a reasonable longish term energy storage and I’ll set one up in the backyard :-) Save excess energy from the Summer, use it in Winter, repeat.

I don’t have enough space for the amount of LFP batteries I’d need for such seasonal storage. Even flow batteries of today needs more space than I have. So, it will have to be some $future tech that could allow me to save the summer for the Winter.

You know, it's a bit hard for me to understand how every household buying hundreds of kilograms of hard to mine metals is somehow a solution to the energy intensity of modern civilization. But maybe I'm just very nearsighted and it'll work.

Well, by that logic, I have some great sophistication going on in my household..

Several devices that took EUV machines(that cost hundreds of millions each) to etch login onto themselves - microchips on my laptop, phone etc.

A pipe constantly supplying flammable gas that was probably mined thousands of kilometers away just so that I can burn it and heat up my water for shower.

A very dangerous to the environment - refrigerant in both my fridge and heat pump.

A tank full of dinosaur juice in my car, which itself was machined and built with some exotic metals mined somewhere else in the world.

What difference is a few more kilograms of futuristic substance that can save energy for my house make?

I know hundreds or thousands of kilograms of LFP batteries in my backyard in feasible today. But who knows. Maybe we will find a way to mine Lithium or replace it with Sodium and the whole process would become “normal” like the metals in my 3 ton car.

You summed it up pretty well. I struggle to understand the idea that increasing consumption will lessen the impact of previous consumption. If this is our only approach, extrapolation says we're doomed.

Didn't half a row of row houses get destroyed in a fire last year in NL because they had rooftop solar and it would effectively shield the fire from the firefighters?

I don’t think the government would allow solar panels to be part of the building code(and even encourage new built houses to have them) if they actively hurt firefight.

I’m struggling to even think about this argument. How does something on the roof prevent firefighters from putting out the fire? It’s not like firefighters drill a hole through the roof to ingest extinguishers..

The solar panels themselves are _outside_ the roof. So, if they catch fire, your roof must have gone to fire by now, and you have bigger things to worry about.

This happened last October

https://nos.nl/artikel/2493147-bouwregels-voor-verduurzaamde...

Yes, the article does not mention the solar panels even once. They talk about the additional insulation they put on atop the old facade, which led to a gap which helped the fire to propagate faster. (my understanding of Nederlands is limited, so I may have misread something).

I cannot see how solar panels on the roof could hinder fire safety.

All the Li-ion batteries we keep inside the house in the other hand… particularly the old ones on our used electronics laying around in closets and drawers without being paid attention to. That’s what worries me the most. I can only get the most flexible fire insurance for my home.

That looks like classic FUD

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