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Comment by pavelboyko | Hacker News Reader

Spaced repetition, especially when using tools like Anki, is effective for memorizing facts. However, memorization represents the most basic level of learning objectives, see e.g. [1] and [2]. Are there any recommended tools for practicing more advanced levels of knowledge, such as relational analysis, synthesis, and critical evaluation?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_taxonomy

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_observed_learni...

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I think you are minimizing something that is very important.

Understanding deeply and completely any topic is much easier when you understand deeply and completely the fundamental components and concepts--which starts with memorization.

Yea, i thought that was studied, but perhaps not. Ie the knowledge we retain help us formalize larger more complex thoughts. Perhaps facts are a too small unit? Though i don't see why you couldn't also use Spaced Rep to memorize larger relationships.

This idea was the foundation for the Quantum Country book [0], which was essentially an experiment in combining reading with spaced repetition learning to let you do just that: understand a topic deeply.

Anyone interested in the theoretical underpinnings of the idea can read about it in the blog post [1] the co-authors wrote. For anyone who objects to the idea that rote-memorisation can aide learning rather than simply let you mechanically repeat facts, you should read the paragraph "How important is memory, anyway?" [2].

[0]: https://quantum.country/ [1]: https://numinous.productions/ttft/ [2]: https://numinous.productions/ttft/#how-important-is-memory

Indeed. Having a good memorization of "building blocks" of whatever higher minded thing you're looking into allows a lot more native synthesis of ideas.

It also keeps you from having to interrupt your flow to stop and go look something up.

The best tool for that kind of thing is developing good note-taking skills.

When I'm doing language study, for example, the backbone of my memory reinforcement strategy is a plain old pen-and-paper notebook. Anki is only used for specific, targeted reinforcement.

Most my time with Anki these days is learning Chinese characters. That's arguably an ideal use case for brute-forcing with SRS, and that is indeed a very popular way to learn them. But I prefer to start with good note-taking there, too. I keep a notebook where I write down new characters and make some notes about their composition, etymology, and the nature of any relationship they might have with other characters that have a similar appearance or show up as components in this new one. IME even the simple act of physically jotting down a handwritten note to not confuse 买 with 卖 or 找 with 我 is worth some large number of flashcard repetitions all by itself.

I also create cards for hanzi in Anki, but typically only after I've already encountered it a few times in my reading and it's starting to feel familiar. Leech cards are a huge waste of time when tackling a large subject, so I don't really like to add a card to my deck until I'm reasonably confident that I won't be hitting the "again" button on it more than once or twice, if ever.

Is there something that you would personally recommend in order to develop better note taking skills?

Read about different note-taking methods, try them, and decide which one you like best.

You can use incremental reading, which is built on top of spaced repetition. Lots of people have invented it independently [1] and it works amazingly! Once you get the hang of it, it changes the way you think about learning stuff.

[1] https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Michael_Nielsen_re-discovers_inc...

You can use Anki to learn subjects more deeply - it's just harder.

Check out this experimental work to learn Quantum Physics using SRS: https://quantum.country/

Immersion is the only "tool" I know that tries to make the next leap formalized. For language learning at least, saturating yourself with input lets the brain build the deep relational maps it needs to use language, and no amount of rote learning of arbitrary grammar and vocab can replace that process.

Supermemo (an earlier-established piece of Anki-adjacent software) and its fans are big pushers of something called "Incremental Reading":

https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Incremental_reading

https://www.help.supermemo.org/wiki/Incremental_reading

Initial deck: simple facts. More advanced decks, after simple facts are memorized: concept-based.

Example:

Front: Rotator cuff tear - diagnosis? Why would this make sense?

Back: MRI is generally better for soft tissue; you wouldn't use a CT scan, which is much better for bone. Remember that X-rays / CTs generally work by shooting high-frequency electromagnetic radiation "X-rays" at tissue - if the tissue has dense elements like Ca++ in bone, the X-rays will be reflected back by the dense elements. This is why X-rays and CTs are good for detecting dense things like blood (iron in heme is dense), bone (calcium is dense) or even why we use contrast (things like barium or iodide are dense elements)

Do doctors keep this much in their heads? I would have this in a notes system that I could recover by searching for "rotator cuff" during the appointment. I know I'd never remember it all, but maybe with Anki I would.

If this is your field, it's really not any different from:

Front: Computer noise: top differential diagnosis? How dos this make sense?

Back: Check the fans for dust. Plastic...static electricity...etc

The point is that it's not necessary to review individual facts anymore because the concepts require their utilization, so it's just "common sense" knowledge to physicians. Of course, the knowledge from one physician to the next can vary greatly.

I work in a university hospital as a neuroradiologist. I've used Anki extensively during my studies and my specialist training. Now I use it to memorize thousands of image diagnosis patterns and differential diagnosis. 'You can't diagnose (or see) what you don't know', which means using an extensive note system is insufficient. I recommend Anki to all the radiologists (and doctors in general) training in our institute.

I think the closest thing would be concept mapping software or knowledgebase software like Obsidian. But that's more about storing concepts and not so much about learning concepts.

If that software existed, it would be incredible.

Obsidian has a spaced repetition community plugin that I use when I write documentation. I add a flashcard for everything that I want to learn.

So you just put #flashcards inline (or whatever you tell it to look for) at the bottom if your file.

And then:

This is a question::this is the answer. This is another question::this is another answer.

I run through my cards about 30 minutes before I start work. It works very well.

Going to school.

techniques >> tools

Work on encoding information, understand things deeply, relate concepts, and then create your cards.

For language learning, for instance, this means that if you have 10 new words you want to learn, you create f.ex. 15 sentences so that each sentence contains 2 of those words, and each words appears in 3 sentences. Then you run them eg. by your a tutor to validate them, and add it to your Anki deck.

Now you will only review each sentence 5-8 times, and you can do it very fast.

Doesn't need to be exactly like that, but you get the idea

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