Over 2k shell companies have directors aged 123 years or older | Hacker News Reader

Over 2k shell companies have directors aged 123 years or older

fortune.com

182 pointsBerislavLopac63 comments

When I was in a teenager I worked in a bank doing data entry of bank account applications. A couple of years later I spent a LOT of time doing ETL and digging into older databases. So I have enough experience to be able to say this:

This example is clearly a data entry error - 2024 - 942 = 1982. Errors like this are super common, loads of people have the writing ability of toddlers with ADHD so you see a lot of mistakes around especially around these numbers: 0/8/9, 2/7, 4/9 and 1/7

"One listed director — at 942 years old — would have been born in the 11th century."

> 2024 - 942 = 1982

My math is rusty to be sure, but I'm pretty sure 2024 - 942 = 1082. In this case, I suppose the data entry error is that someone somewhere accidentally entered a birth year as 1082, instead of 1982, corrupting the 9 for a 0 because they can look similar when sloppily written and also because they are adjacent on a keyboard.

Yes, that is exactly the mistake that GP is elucidating.

Yes, but it was unclear to me until I worked through it because op didn’t make it as obvious as it could have been. I figured if I was confused others might be too, so I typed it out explicitly.

I did kept thinking too. Thanks for pointing it out.

GP?

GP = Grandparent / reference to the poster of the comment 2 levels above

The original problem being that it should have been 2024 - 42.

Yeah you're right - I re-structured my post before hitting on "reply" and mangled what was originally something like this:

2024 - 942 = 1082 instead of 1982.

(I also removed a detailed description of how these errors are usually caused by a mistype by those who do not use a keyboard with a number pad and by poor handwriting making 0 and 9 look similar.. but I cut that out as otherwise we're be here all day reading my rambling thoughts).

or a bizarre Y2K problem

Maybe 2024 - 1942?

then 2024 - 123 = 1901 seems a similar case to this and would be 1991 and the article then does not make sense?

1901 might also be an artefact of data with invalid dates passing through legacy systems that only support dates between 1901 and 2099 (because both 1900 and 2100 are non-leap years divisible by 4, breaking naive time calculations).

The poor fella might be guarding an ark somewhere.

Don't we mean 2024 - 42? As in they missed a keystroke?

Most lovely genre: uneducated journalists trying to understand numbers and making bold assumptions.

Is it really that "bold" of an assumption to make that most shell companies aren't mom and pop small businesses but rather just fronts for money laundering and tax evasion?

from TFA

> Moody’s Analytics has found 21 million “red flags” associated with shell companies that could be used to enable financial crimes, from ancient directors to dubious addresses.

"red flags" just means data entry errors, not intentional fraud.

Anyone who has worked in ETL knows data-in is usually garbage.

Yes, but there is a big difference between filling in some survey you don't care about and registering a company, where you might be criminially liable for any mistakes. I make damn sure any filings related to my company are correct.

It's not the founders of the companies that are making these errors, it is the bank's data entry employees typing in the data from hand written forms.

Most of these accounts were opened before online form submissions. Not to mention the ambiguity between date formats causing all sorts of issues. ...apostrophes in names, etc...

Data quality issues have a variety of causes.

In the UK company information is filed online with Companies House, by the company (or possibly a professional representative). Not by a bank data entry person.

And if the bank needs that data it should be able to download it.

So I don't understand where bank data entry comes in. However I only skimmed the article.

You forget that much of the data they looked as is decades old - before automated systems and computer data entry.

One would have to assume that it's a combination of both.

Proof that having a lucrative job where one doesn't need to do any work at all is the key to longevity!

Not any work? You are probably required to join at least 4 mandatory meeting per year! It’s a lot of work to get on shore from your yacht and into a board room. And that 4 times a year.

What boardroom? Phones exist. Say "yes" a few times and then back to the champagne bottle.

That's no joke when you're 942 years old.

I was going to say the same... that would be literally more impressive than anyone ever on HN.

Nicolas Flamel would disagree.

It's interesting because years ago, I was discussing the possibility that corporations might use shell companies to launder money to themselves.

My guess was that shell companies would be taking out loans, raising as much money from investors as possible, spending all the money on corporate services and then letting themselves go bankrupt.

Then, if the founder managed to stay out of jail, they would get a well paid job at the big corporation.

You have described: 1. How mobs did it with Casinos 2. How Anonymous LLCs in the Netherlands do it too. 3. Trump LLC family is also accused of the same patterns.

Hi Chapo, how you doing these days

We should be embarrassed to be at the top of the list in the UK. That being said, change is coming to the law in the UK[1] - I hope it's enough to turn the tide.

[1]: https://changestoukcompanylaw.campaign.gov.uk/

Oh lots of changes to make it harder for small companies to register and file. I’m shocked…

Getting rid of web filing in favour of software filing seems retrograde

The UK keeps promising to clean this up. But there is a vast ecosystem of lawyers, accounts, wealth managers etc who make a very nice living off helping kleptocrats and criminal hide their money. No doubt some of them pay lobbyists and/or make sizeable donation to polticial parties. So don't expect this gravy train to slow down any time soon.

it's fascinating knowing there's a cabal of lobbiests, accounts and wealth managers specially crafting loopholes for the minor richs

Who said anything about 'minor'?

Money laundering will soon be all the UK has left.

The Netherlands is already capitalizing quite handsomely from the infamous Brexit. This would be funny if not for the impact this has on both nation's working class, the British for losing jobs and economic activity and the Netherlands for falling victims for the housing crisis.

Could you expand a bit what you mean by Brexit causing the housing crisis in the Netherlands?

> (...) Brexit causing the housing crisis in the Netherlands?

I didn't claimed Brexit caused the dutch housing crisis.

What I referred to was how more institutions and corporations have moved and are moving to the Netherlands, and with them they bring in high-paying jobs filled by an ever increasing expat community. Housing is scarce already and the sudden inflow of people with a higher purchasing power are progressively pricing locals out of the housing market, worsening a problem that's already quite bad.

The latest dutch elections already reflect the growing discontent of average dutch people towards the immigration wave. Even if it's caused by foreign interference aimed at destabilizing European nations by manipulating the public to support extremist parties with a anti-european agenda, these foreign actors are only fanning discontent that's already present.

I'm not the parent but many multinationals, EU agencies and NGOs have moved some or all staff from London to Amsterdam. An example is the European Medicines Agency.

Does this apply to the City of London[0]? My understanding is that it has its own rules with regards to transparency for example. [1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

[1] https://platform-production.s3.amazonaws.com/therules-134-Ci...

EDIT: Added a reference.

The City isn't a seperate legal jurisdiction in this way. The Corporation of London has special rules regarding itself only, as a local authority.

The City, as a place, hosts companies who offer services that can move your funds to seperate jurisdictions, but these companies are subject, AFAIK, to all England&Wales law.

Lastly, the tax dodged in the City was often not going to the UK Exchequer anyway, usually it was diverted from the treasury of a developing country. We slap a fee on that work and call it an economy.

Not sure exactly what you're referring to. There are additional rules if you're listed on the London Stock Exchange (both legal as a PLC and contractual with the exchange itself, if I understand it correctly), but that's not the City per se?

AFAIK these are changes that apply to any company in the UK (whether or not theyre LSE-listed). This also wouldn't depend on whether they operate within the City of London.

You hope? Why? How does it affect you?

Yes, reptilians can live up to 200~300 yrs old.

And the pyramid eye thing makes sense now too.

Ok, Mark.

I’m also going to go with data entry errors

There are legitimate areas of malfeasance, as well as outstanding areas where transparency is non-existent, but this reporting is missing all that and conflates it all

these are used by the rich people to evade taxation. so it's not a problem.

try lying to the govt as a commoner, especially when it comes down to taxation.

"It's incorrect to say that homeless are poorly integrated into society. I know one hobo from the central station who is a director of a dozen companies!"

"It'd not true that newcomers have hard time in Moscow. Jusy lose your ID on the railway terminal and you will become a director of a dozen companies real quick"

I'm not saying it's aliens...

They should cop to it and name them Methuselah.

Vampires exist

Does that mean those companies are managed by vampires in their teenage years? I would expect adult vampires to be older than 120 years old!

Sounds like a good few of the directors were much old than that.

> One listed director — at 942 years old — would have been born in the 11th century.

Everyone knows that billionaire vampires under 300 years old are trust fund vampires

This also proves that we are not the mirror universe.

I wanted to write this!

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