Metabolic Step-by-Step: Stages of Fasting in the First 72hrs
usetemper.com
usetemper.com
I’m fairly certain there are accurate truths written on that page but I can’t help shake the feeling it’s being mixed with unfounded assertions.
>> Dr T. Dalton Combs PhD
I guess the title section made me think this was a medical doctor for some reason but the author never claims that so it’s entirely on me for thinking that.
>> Dalton earned his Ph.D. in NeuroEcomincs from the University of Southern California using neuroimaging to studying decision-making around food choices and in children with ADHD
I’m not sure what to make of this profile.
I’d need to do more research before I felt comfortable with anything written there but I can’t point to anything in particular setting off my BS alarm, I don’t know enough about the topic and the bits I do know look correct there.
A few months later covid arrived, I got it and am not sure if the fast helped surviving it or actually worsened it as while I had almost asymptomatic run, in a few months it morphed into long covid. I think I depleted my B vitamins during the long fast and kicked off mitochondrial dysfunction as a consequence of covid.
Most people fast because they want to lose weight, I imagine. Here's a good discussion, including of uncertainties and unknowns:
"The circulating metabolome of human starvation" (2018)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6141167/
> "Human starvation is marked by an early period of glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis (3, 4). By 2–3 days into a fast, fatty acids released from lipid stores become the primary source of fuel; this critical transition to lipid metabolism allows for protein sparing during prolonged periods of starvation (3). What are the hormonal signals that mediate this transition from glucose to lipid metabolism?"
I'd guess vitamin supplementation under fasting is a good idea if the goal is to get your body to start consuming its stores of lipid fats.
Would definitely recommend zero instead of once, even if it seems to go well at the time.
The only really interesting thing to say about it is that by day 3 I had entered the calmest period of my life. I'm prone to depression and anxiety, have meditated extensively, weaned off coffee...whatever you can think of apart from hard drugs I have done. Never felt so at peace looking at a wall for hours, total absence of intruding thoughts. Just immersed in a warm pool of grey space.
Only stopped at 5 days because it was affecting my sex life. I know people who have fasted for a month, no big deal once you get going.
24 hours isn't two bad. The second 24 hours is awful. That's when the headaches come. The third 24 hours your body starts stabilizing and it's pretty doable from there. Friends who went longer said it gets bad again in the second week.
You wouldn’t take 10% the lethal dose of cyanide.
Clearly fasting for extended periods can be done safely, but it’s not unreasonable to ask the question.
Problem is: it's easier to not start drinking alltogether than being super careful about the quantities you ingest. Therefore the advice is indeed that it's simply bad and you should not have any.
I meant that there seems to be a never ending “one glass of wine is good for you” vs “all alcohol is bad”, with the former probably from alcohol lobby funded research, i guess.
To directly answer your question, I didn’t talk to a doctor ahead of time, but I did make sure to drink lots of water during that period.
I remember the hardest day was day 2. For the first day, you “feel” hungry as your body is accustomed to eating, but it is day 2 you are genuinely hungry. However, per the article, after about the third day you simply don’t notice yourself being as hungry anymore.
I noticed then (and notice now when I fast) positive effects on mood, and ironically energy.
The only drawback I have noticed is that the first meal after a fast, especially if a large carbohydrate based one, seems to have outsized effects on drowsiness.
This sort of makes sense from a hunter gatherer survival selection pressure too.
To keep the take-aways short, here's what I found:
1. Do not attempt to do any sort of exercises that require real exertion (slow walking is fine) while doing fasting of any kind, and I would (given my experience with ketogenic diets) extend this to keto as well, especially when lifting weights. Despite what some liars and/or freaks will tell you, you cannot be fasted or ketogenic and maintain quality performance.
2. The 3 days are probably fine if you do them with a couple of months in between if you have other goals you're working on (like building muscle). Doing them every week will minimize any other fitness goals that you may have.
3. The 5 days and over left me feeling tired, but the tiredness would come in hard waves. For instance it was not uncommon to want to immediately fall asleep at random hours of the day only to feel wide awake at 2am the next day. Just being hungry messes with your sleep, and I suspect (but have not confirmed) that it probably messes with your circadian rhythm.
4. I lost more cumulative weight running two 3-day fasts than I did with one 10-day fast. This was confirmed against both of my 10-days. Most will attribute this to water weight, however in the +5-6 days after the fast ended I was still lighter with the cumulatives.
5. There were only a couple of times where I got that euphoric feeling that many claim to get, and that was only in the first two fasts I did. All subsequent fasts did not produce this.
6. In the last 5-day+ fast I did I experienced some weird neuropathy in both legs and hands, despite being fully hydrated and taking electrolytes. I immediately broke fast and felt better and have not experienced any neuropathy since.
7. I no longer do long term fasts, instead opting for intermittent fasting (16:8) daily for several reasons, coupled with not eating bread or pasta. This seems to have much better and more sustainable results.
Overall I’ve only been able to do longer fasts when OOO as my cognitive motivation is so low the first few days. Keeping just with tv shows / exercise / nerding out also makes a big difference when OOO and not noticing being hungry cause of work stress and reflexively wanting a snack as motivation to do more work.
I think this is kind of a trap. It assumes that there is a default mode under which we're operating, and that something like IF is straying from a natural order.
But you're already obeying a philosophy of eating. The philosophy that you go out and buy things that will likely induce a lot of craving for more, the cultural norm that you will eat at times that are appropriate for the company you work at, etc.
Essentially you are eating by someone else's philosophy.
> which I later figured was probably the body releasing a bunch of hormones or something in response to a sustained unhealthy calorie deficit.
This sounds pseudo-sciency to me.
Yeah, not claiming that my hunches are any more scientifically valid, but that is my best guess from what I've read.
I agree and I do think it's good to take some degree of control over it, especially with the already unnatural environment we're subjected to. I just think there is another side to the IF story that isn't told as often.
I think people who are naturally good at sticking to things and are already interested in self optimisation etc are probably more prone to overdoing it and doing extreme diets like one meal a day or 30 bananas a day. The "intermittent" in IF is a bit misleading in my opinion, because none of the youtubers I was watching back in the day seemed to mention taking a break from it. It was basically choose an eating window like 6-10h and then stick to it rigidly, which to me doesn't really capture what I assume these people are going for - something more like the random periods of extended fasting that we might have undergone as hunter-gatherers.
We are doomed for good