Details of the new Suzuki Omnichord OM-108 | Hacker News Reader

Details of the new Suzuki Omnichord OM-108

suzuki-music.co.jp

151 pointsrunamuck87 comments

For $800 this is a scam. (Though in their defense they admit that it is a cult on that page.) If you're interested in this because you're someone who "doesn't know music": don't believe the "does not require any previous musical experience" bait.

The key "thing" about this Omnichord device are that its notes are arranged in fifths, and you can play chords with a second button which means not having to memorize chord shapes. That's neat, but...

I'm going to suggest an app that is vastly superior to Omnichord's layout. It's called "Navichord Lite". It uses the Tonnetz layout: a layout that arranges notes like The Universe intended: you really have to see it to believe it. Basically, notes near each other sound good. Any local triangle of notes is a major or minor chord. A fifth or seventh means adding on one more note nearby. It's (two-dimensionally) isomorphic. The list goes on for advantages here. (Also, you don't need to know any of this to start. You just play. It's intuitive. It's actually a great way to learn music.)

Navichord Lite also highlights notes in whatever scale you choose, and highlights a few other things in a useful way...THIS is the ultimate "don't need to know anything about music" instrument and you can play like Mozart within minutes. (It's only available on iOS, unfortunately. But, for $800 you can buy an iPad and use it just for this.)

Also, I'd like to add an alternative reason why Omnichord is a ripoff, especially to a "person who doesn't know music". For $800, you can buy a used MacBook, a Novation Launchkey Mini MK3, and a USB cable to connect them together. You can then install Reaper and map the MIDI keys to a scale, any scale, or a chord, and literally hit random keys and it will sound good. You don't need to know anything about music, you don't even know what a scale or a chord is, and it will sound good.

And if you are willing to go slightly higher than $800, get a Linnstrument: https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument

Amusingly, I've been on a 2D note layout Wikipedia reading spree lately. I'm really digging the idea of isomorphic layouts, and I've been thinking of picking up something to help me see the chord patterns better in whatever music I'm already familiar with. Any thoughts on the Exquis? Any VSTs worth looking into as well? Linnstrument looks cool too.

Check the Striso Board.

Hey, I've been on a similar spree!

It all started when I asked myself why I still suck at guitar and piano, despite a decade of on and off playing.

On piano, jumping between keys/modes is non-trivial, unless you have an extensive amount of practice building memory and muscle memory. And guitar...guitar is just so much work to play, even with years of practice. In both cases, the result is that your playing is biased due to memory and finger-strength constraints.

I've realized now that both piano and guitar are (very) unnecessarily difficult. It only took me 15 years of failure to realize it. What's really odd is that I look around and see very few people also realizing this. Instead I see many people struggling to play their instruments, especially on guitar with people generally sticking to 3-chord songs.

I ended up getting a Linnstrument. Best decision I've ever made. I feel limitless now, musically. The device is high quality, has lots of buttons (I got the larger version), and is fully programmable (it uses an Arduino). It may seem pricy, but you're dealing with something one-of-a-kind here, totally worth it.

The feature that sold me is that you can choose what scale you want to be in, and it will light up only those notes in the scale. This works out of the box, but if you're willing to do some C programming, you can extend it however you want. (I programmed mine to use a different color for each note.) From what I've seen, both piano and guitar communities tend to be snobs about lighting up scale notes: "lights are for children", "lights are a crutch, learn the scales without them". These people are ignorant. I've gone from 0 to 100 very quickly due to being able to light up scales. I also drive with a GPS.

Exquis looks pretty awesome, too!

> On piano, jumping between keys/modes is non-trivial, unless you have an extensive amount of practice building memory and muscle memory.

If you learn your circle of fifths it is quite trivial, because nearby scales on the circle (i.e. scales that have tonal centers a fifth apart) only add or remove a single black key. F to C (Bb becomes B) to G (F becomes F#) to D (C becomes C#) etc. is very easy and a lot of music will stick to those. Learning scales on guitar (or indeed on an isomorphic keyboard, for that matter) is only slightly harder, the trick there is knowing your solfège so that you can find your way around the semitone intervals and (for guitar) what to expect when you shift to a nearby string.

For me there is a muscle memory component. I can easily switch between keys that I regularly play in, but going to something like c# is difficult because I don’t have the muscle memory for it. I mainly play by ear and chord notations too. I have never been able to read sheet music real time.

C# can be overwhelming without some assistance, I’d recommend Visual Studio

The Synthstrom Deluge (even more expensive, around $1200) has an isomorphic keyboard mode which is a lot of fun to play.

you can buy a used MacBook, a Novation Launchkey Mini MK3, and a USB cable to connect them together. You can then install Reaper and map the MIDI keys to a scale, any scale, or a chord

When you put it that way, buying an Omnichord sounds a lot more straight forward.

One does not simply buy a used MacBook. Or install Reaper. Let alone map Midi controllers.

And that’s without waiting for updates, registering on websites, and installing the right OS.

Tbf I'm pretty sure the main reason people are gonna be buying omnichords is because they want specifically omnichords- the layout + sound of the thing has a pretty strong romanticism/pop culture significance to it.

I can play piano and I'm still kinda tempted.

Tonnetz is cute, but it's just another perspective with its own limitations. Why is the double triangle ceg together with egb a nice harmonic chord, but the triangle ceg plus c-eflat-g a disharmony? They form the same shape.

They technically form the same shape, but orientation matters. Triangles pointing up are major, those pointing down are minor. Minor and major chords from the same base note, C in this case, will have both major and minor tonalities clashing.

I have an OM-100 which I brought a few years back after being obsessed with Omnichords for years. I listen to a lot of dream pop and dreampop artists use them quite a bit.

For me there's no instrument which sounds more nostalgic than the Omnichord – and imo the OM-100 is the most beautiful sounding of all models.

If you have young kids who have an interest in music they're great instruments to introduce them to playing and writing music. They've been designed to be as easy to play as possible to the point where you'd struggle to play it badly. They are expensive, but if those worried about price it's worth keeping in mind that they will hold their value if you look after them.

This channel has some of my favourite Omnichord covers for anyone interested in how lovely these things sound, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2HMdP-bXaA

Demo from NAMM, love the presenter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWk5_ifkFk

Mother Maybelle would have loved this thing.

I loved the part about "new features" and he pulls out the skin to overlay the buttons to give it a keyboard layout, and then promptly does absolutely nothing with it that required the use of that overlay.

Sure, but what he did promptly do is play a complex rhythm track on an Omnichord. I was not expecting that.

Same. You can sing along with it! It has faceplate! You can throw down crazy complex percussion without missing a beat! You can sound like a 4th grade music teacher!

I literally laughed in happiness when he did that. It was awesome.

He makes some sick beats. The overlay is just for the vibes

That presenter was amazing. Reminded me of the old video of the Creative Labs keyboard drummer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVfbTqRJliw

Paul Seow... 10 years later:

https://coconuts.co/singapore/news/catching-paul-seow-singap...

Since I was surprised to learn that there's a Suzuki Music, I checked, and unlike Yamaha, it's unrelated to the Suzuki that builds bikes and cars. Interestingly, they all are from the same city (including Yamaha). Suzuki is a rather common name in Japan (I think it's number 2 in number of people) so it's not totally surprising that two companies share the name.

While I'm here, Yamaha motors was actually spun off Yamaha music. Yes, they started with instruments and went building bikes.

To add to that fun fact, it's why the Yamaha logo is three crossed tuning forks.

To further add facts, logos such as these draw upon the tradition of Japanese emblems or "mon" [1]. Mitsubishi being another famous one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_(emblem)

Oh :) Good to know.

I have a Suzuki ... car. When I bought it i had to always specify it's a car because everyone assumed I got into motorcycles. At least the musical instruments are made by a different company.

Perhaps another hit single lurks within the presets! https://www.musicradar.com/news/damon-albarn-gorillaz-clint-...

I remember the first time I heard one of the CD samplers that musicians use, and then started recognizing there unaltered use in pop music. Some sounds were so widely used, it almost felt like a Wilhelm scream intent rather than musical intent.

This happens in every genre. I remember getting a K2000 and playing around with the preset floppy disks, only to suddenly find Hallucinogen leads cascading out of the speakers. In fairness I had read interviews with him where he said he didn't do super fancy programming and just picked sounds that seemed to go well together, but I thought he was just being modest.

https://newatlas.com/music/suzuki-omnichord-om108/ says $750

Dang, I wanted one of these but that is a lot of money for it.

Similar price to a Roland keyboard.

Aside from the interface, this instrument has the functionality of arranger keyboards that cost well under $100. A $750 Roland is not comparable.

'dang might be sympathetic, but i doubt will actually buy it for you.

Thank you, I'll never read sentences that start with Dang the same again.

The Time Being and the Bear with me will be in great company.

Yeah a lot of cool digital instruments are expensive; I suspect it's because they're not mass produced like for example "my first keyboard" type toys.

Expensive, but the Omnichord very much comes across as an expensive toy for adults to me in terms of which market it targets. It looks like a heap of fun though and I am happy that my analysis of the name (OM-108) back in December when Midi was unconfirmed was incorrect [1]. Now there is the option to run it through your synthesisers and effects.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38567925

If anyone wants to learn more about the older OM-84 model mentioned multiple times on this page, David Hilowitz has a fantastic video about it and its history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAIar0O-yvg

Second this, the algorithm pushed this to me recently, curious coincidence?

I also produce music so it tracks with my feed a bit.

For anyone interested in trying it out, here's a free browser version with sounds sampled from an original Omnichord: https://onlineomnichord.com/

For me, it's the Otamatone. https://youtu.be/ZmxLja-DRIw

800 dollars what the hell.. i guess i'll have to skip this one

One of my favorite uses for it is in Rebecca Sugar's music for Adventure Time and Steven Universe. https://www.tiktok.com/@rebeccasugar/video/73273903131719303...

Robbie Robertson's "Somewhere Down The Crazy River" had it in its music video, 0:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP9PNSUME4

My Morning Jacket's "Touch Me I'm Going To Scream pt 2": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3PciCWIGLE

It says no musical experience needed, but is a whole bunch of chords to switch between really easier than the same amount of plain piano keys in a predictable order?

Cool instrument though and selecting a single chord, then playing around with the sensitive pad does seem easy

It would seem so. Piano keys play a single note. It takes three or more notes to make a chord.

I think so. For instance, you can get “fake books” that are charts of chord progressions of hundreds of songs. Someone could sit down with this and a fake book and imitate a lot of songs well enough for a sing-along evening. It would take an awful lot more piano practice to go from zero to that level of playing.

That’s setting aside the quality question. A good pianist in the right setting’s going to sound way better than a newbie with an Omnichord. However, the newb and their Omnichord would probably be a lot more fun at a house party than not having live music at all.

And a good pianist could have fun playing with a newb on an omnichord.

It’s probably like a harmonica. You won’t sound that bad with it because it prohibits you from playing off key, but a good harmonica player knows what they’re doing.

For sixty bucks you got yourself a "toy" keyboard which will let you play those chords with just pressing the root note. When you're ready to move on and play the full chords yourself, you already know which roots to play.

Well OK, you convinced me I want one but that website sucks. How do I buy it?

You wait until July when it will become available.

> All that is needed are the chord names required to play a song which is a method commonly known as ‘tab’.

Urgh, no that is the opposite of tab.

>Omnichord does not require any previous musical experience with an instrument, or even knowledge of staff notation

Doubt. To me it looks like an inverse piano

> Powered by 8, AA batteries

Guess some things never change.(18650 is not the best thing in the world but it is miles ahead of 8 (eight) AA batteries)

Thing is you can buy AA batteries anywhere

But you only need to buy 18650s once.

AA and 18650 are just form factors. You can get rechargeable AA.

If I'm not mistaken, rechargeable AA batteries are 1.2 volts not 1.5. That might not be enough for this device. And in any case rechargable AA batteries do not last as long as the same volume of an 18650.

There is zero chance this won’t work with rechargeable AA batteries.

(More of a chance that a vintage one would have trouble with NiMH batteries, though)

Thank you. I've seen a simple domino-setting toy that just would not work on two rechargable AAs. Replacing one with an alkaline was enough to get it moving. I'm not sure what technology the batteries are, both them and the toy were new last year.

Edit: And yes, the batteries were properly charged ))

Interesting!

I certainly haven’t seen a single new electronic music device that won’t work with rechargeable AAs in a good long time. I am not sure the market would tolerate it.

(I do remember being told that rechargeable AA batteries in certain guitar effects pedals subtly affected tone, but I am not sure how much I would believe it.)

OmniChord Heaven on FB has confirmed it works with NiMH batteries (and in a way that confirms my hazy recollection that the older models did not like NiMH C cells)

https://www.facebook.com/Omnichord.Heaven/posts/pfbid02GPS3J...

Oh I am so tempted.

There are also USB-rechargeable Li-Ion batteries which are 1.5 volts and last longer than the NiMH ones.

Newer devices take this into account; they may produce vintage sound, but they contain modern circuitry that runs at 1.8 to 3.3 volts and employ more efficient switching regulators. In some devices a fully recharged NiMH battery might be reported as not 100%, but aside that, the device will work, probably even longer than with alkalines due to the cells higher current and the different discharge curves.

Yes, those are the voltages that I use on newer Arduino clones, provided the sensors I need support 3.3v.

I had no idea that the NiMH batteries can provide higher current. That might be useful for e.g. servos. I'll pick up some, thank you.

The appeal of this instrument is that you can take it somewhere that doesn't have outlets to recharge it. Same reason there's a speaker, even though you wouldn't use that for recording. The Omnichord is a nostalgia buy, not the cutting edge (to the point that it doesn't even have corners).

That's a good thing. I have plenty of electronics that I'd still like to use but can't because it's hard to find a battery.

18650s are very widely available, although sadly there are a lot of fakes so choose a reputable supplier.

Some things never change, like 18650 batteries having an awful safety profile.

[Citation needed]

Can you provide one for a low pow3 profile, like for the device in the srticle?

The problem with Lithium is also safety regulations that could prevent for example bundling them in devices boxes like they do sometimes with alkalines.

The Atari Lynx required 6 AA Batteries, back in 1989.

If you can afford an $800 toy, you can afford 8x Eneloops

Cool device! I think I'll get one. Should be very useful for chord experimentation.

5-pin midi out and no USB, in 2024?

5-pin MIDI out is still the best MIDI out, at least for serious applications.

Not to mention a MIDI to USB interface costs just a few bucks and is supported by every common OS out there, while one can't have the opposite (that is, adding MIDI to a USB only instrument) short of going DIY, which would be neither that easy nor cheap.

5-pin DIN is still the more stable option today and doesn't introduce any noise, unlike USB which carries power.

Noise in midi? Seriously?

Yeah, I’ve got devices where there is a hum on their output while using usb-midi. 5 pin midi should not have such issues (but if done badly could)

Yep. It's not noise on the MIDI signal, obviously, it's crosstalk induced by USB circuitry. It gets worse when bus power is involved; USB-powered instruments are notorious for it.

MIDI is galvanically isolated, USB is galvanically connected so you can have groundloops if you use USB but not if you use MIDI.

I got a TE EP-133 sampler this week. The only portable MIDI keyboard I have is USB only, meaning there’s no way I can connect it to the sampler without involving a computer, or a standalone connector that’s way more expensive than just buying a different keyboard.

5-pin MIDI always works, and works without anything more complex than a little adapter cable.

I'd hazard a guess that all most users want is to hook a midi device up to the computer. It would cost what, a $3-5 per unit to add usb connectivity?

I'd probably say I'm not alone with using standalone MIDI 99% of the time, both to the computer (my audio interface has MIDI in/out via din) but mostly just between instruments. Nothing in my setup requires a computer and I prefer to keep it that way.

Same. Or at least, I strongly prefer having the option of using it standalone, especially when the devices involved are highly portable.

Runs on 8 AA batteries? 12V line in?

Come on, I appreciate the retro looks and analog circuitry, but they could have at least made one nod to modernity with a rechargeable battery and USB-C power…

Reply on news.ycombinator.com