Kenneth Smith 'struggled for life' for 22 mins in Alabama nitrogen gas execution | Hacker News Reader

Kenneth Smith 'struggled for life' for 22 mins in Alabama nitrogen gas execution

independent.co.uk

20 pointsmikhael26 comments

I thought the general understanding of inert gas asphyxia was that it was painless as gasses like nitrogen don't trigger the hypercapnic alarm response, which in humans arises mostly from blood carbon dioxide levels rising. This report makes it sound like that isn't the case. Does anyone know why?

Perhaps because this man knew, unequivocally, that he was actively being murdered? That is usually a process accompanied by some discomfort regardless of method.

My guess is that the mask used wasn't providing a good seal and therefore didn't provide a "pure" nitrogen atmosphere, which prolonged the ordeal..

My guess too. In which case why don't they put him entirely inside a sealed environment?

Seems like someone high up didn't want to spend too much on an "untested" method in case it didn't work as expected, and it didn't work as expected because they cheaped out so they won't be able to put more money.

Sounds like government work at its finest..

If states so strongly feel the need to execute someone, why go through all these hoops to pretend to make it look "humane?" Just use a firing squad and be honest (and actually effective) about what you're doing.

As I understand it a firing squad would mean instant death, which would be more humane than struggling for 22 mins. Not sure why this method is not preferable. Full disclosure: I'm against death penalty.

That seems like it would strongly depend on how accurate the shots are. There’s a lot of areas in the body where a gun shot isn’t instantly lethal.

because you are forcing people to execute people directly, even though you give concealed blanks to shooters so they can cope by pretending they were the ones with blanks.

Death sentences make no sense anyway, they cost more than indefinite incarceration.

Citation on cost?

I feel it is widely accepted that it is indeed more expensive, and the first page of a google search provides quite a bit of material that substantiates this. However, someone that is truly against it will always find a way of discrediting it.

I'll share this, which should be pretty comprehensive: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/capital-...

But this provides more recent aggregate data citations: https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalt...

Usually in these types of discussions, the cost being more is finally accepted. Then supporters of capital punishment move onto it being an effective deterrent, which is then easily debunked.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs

https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Is_the_death_penalty_more...

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/...

Force the governor to do it.

More here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39138860

Why would anyone think that breathing nitrogen would result in unconsciousness in seconds?

Most of the air we breathe is nitrogen. It is the absence of oxygen that eventually causes death, but that will take some time.

The expectation is that it takes seconds to become unconscious, after which you asphyxiate over the period of minutes.

But why would there be that expectation? I can remain conscious without oxygen for several minutes.

Is there some physiological difference between holding your breath and constantly breathing?

This documentary probably had something to do with it: https://vimeo.com/83750163

In it, a man investigates various means of execution, and concludes that nitrogen asphyxiation is the most 'humane' because the victim just passes out and then perishes. The presenter isn't necessarily wrong, but the caveats include a) the victim must breathe pure nitrogen, any oxygen present will prolong the experience; and b) if the victim is aware they are being executed, it is unlikely to be peaceful regardless.

Edit to add: Also, the physical discomfort from holding one's breath comes from increased concentration of CO2 in the blood, not the absence of oxygen. So as long as one can expel CO2 as usual, the lack of oxygen does not cause physical distress.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03790...

Why not use helium or a gas that we know will absolutely cease function immediately? I am generally in favor of the death penalty and death is rarely without pain, or suffering, but no one has come back from the dead to tell us so we don't really know. Really we should allow the condemned to choose the method, and that method should include several pathways.

It’s inhumane to force someone’s last utterances to be chipmunk squeaks

The government has no business killing people, period. Lock people up for life, fine. But pretending the system is infallible is abhorrent.

What about a process similar to sudden depressurization on an airplane? You just go to sleep.

The irony. They took away lethal injection because it is inhumane to use it for death sentence. Ended up they prolong even more inhumane death sentence. Some action do leads to unintended consequences even if they are not government. Should have used bullets or nukes, maybe this will lead to world peace because military complex will stop making them?

Don't they test these methods on rats, monkeys or something?

Not something "new"

https://www.ladbible.com/news/us-news/kenneth-smith-executio...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com