No car company has taken up Tesla's offer to license FSD
theverge.com
theverge.com
The automotive road code is actually a very complicated thing, developed over long period of time. For example, here in California, the Caltrans organization has very large manuals about how to build things, and it’s really shaped by a whole lot of lawsuits that have happened over a very long period of time.
These legal and regulatory frameworks and case examples have some nebulous risk when it comes to a product like FSD and need time to adapt to the self driving liability and legal landscape.
One of the major things that’s holding up full self driving from a licensing perspective is this risk, with second movers waiting for the risk of this regulatory environment to unwind so that they don’t end up prematurely selecting a technology that hits a dead end or hitching themselves to a wagon that limits their options if things don’t go well.
It’s a lot slower than people realize, with the friends that I have that do this as a specialty looking at 2040 as a target, for example in one case, or 2035 with another. These are PEs. The people that that I know that are involved in these cases, as professional engineers, really, don’t see the legal and regulatory framework catching up with the technology for some time. This is often the case. The paperwork don’t catch up right away. ;)
So you can imagine that the idea of locking yourself into one companies’ntechnology, and hitching your investors cash to the risk profile of Tesla in particular, which is fairly high, is not real attractive when you’re still waiting to see how things turn out with the larger regulatory framework.
And that’s why you’re not gonna see a lot of people jumping in until market pressures make it so difficult that they have to, because the incentives push for them to delay as long as possible before making a commitment to see how things are headed.
But if the technology is kind of mid, their attempts will be lukewarm at best.
Maybe 10 years ago people would be willing to invest into musk, but after twitter people see his ability to truly lead / innovate as "companies may be succeeding despite him, not due to him".
So the reality is, it is all about risk. Tesla's tech may be hypothetically amazing, but Musk's history shows that he fakes the funk a lot, and nobody is willing to take the risk that he might be again.
Edit: Don't forget the golden rule of software dependency: If an API or Library you use fails, no client is going to look at it and say "yeah, its okay, this other company fucked up". No. You fucked up. And now "Ford self driving is a nightmare". And the next headline would be "Musk says Ford implemented FSD incorrectly". They will not accept that sort of risk.
Is that true though? What legal framework do you have in mind? Immunity? That’s never going to happen.
Even before taking Elon’s personality into account, I’m not surprised car manufacturers are staying clear.
Citation needed
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/24/24049848/no-car-company-h...
> We've decided to consolidate all of these stories into one place, because, speaking frankly, if we gave every FSD- or Autopilot-related incident its own post, we'd have to rename our publication from MotorTrend to TeslaFSDAutopilotCrashTrend.
That is a huge continuity risk.
And yes, then there's the software itself...
This ambiguity is pretty important given Musk's questionable history of self-promotion and construction/adherence of contracts.
Presumably there will be a clause in the agreement that prevents this. Musk as erratic as he is, isn't going to ignore court orders. After all, he did eventually cough up the money to buy twitter.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-loses-bid-modify-thr...
>A federal appeals court on Monday rejected Elon Musk's bid to modify or end his 2018 securities fraud settlement with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that required a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), opens new tab lawyer to approve some of his tweets in advance.
Appealing a court decision is nowhere close to "ignoring court orders"
That sounds like a bad deal to me.
I could see companies being nervous about this.
Based on the news, Elon Musk isn't even to be trusted to pay rent, severance packages, or even salaries.
That's because Musk has been lying about the state of full self-driving for years. False claims, staged videos, and continuous lies of "next year, for sure!" aren't a good way to go:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-sel...
In 2016 Tesla claimed "that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver". That was a lie:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...
Lying is part of the company culture at Tesla.
The original Youtube link is dead (I wonder why) but as far as I can tell that one's a faithful copy.
Yes, Tesla has made some false claims in the past. Their car quality has squandered. But they are also producing EVs at scale, something considered next to impossible for a new car entrant. Model Y is the best selling car of any kind.
It's not a zero sum choice between "Destroy Tesla" vs "Save them at any cost".
Tesla makes false claims in the present, even over things as trivial as quarter mile times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYS5VWXZts
https://insideevs.com/news/699260/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-r...
Lying is standard operating procedure for Musk and Tesla.
Where is the line then? What good justifies what "evil". Where is your line in the sand?
Some choice quotes from the decision based on facts proven in the case about endemic racism at the Fremont, California factory:
"This was the second jury that imposed such a high ratio, and its verdict is appropriate in light of the endemic racism at the Tesla factory and Tesla's repeated failure to rectify it."
"Diaz testified that at one point, Martinez threatened to physically attack him at work and yelled at him, “You [N-words] aren't S-H-I-T.” Tr. 3-610:2-612:7. Diaz complained to a supervisor, Ed Romero, and asked him to check the surveillance cameras, though Diaz's subsequent email complaint did not specifically mention racial insults. Tr. 3-612:8-614:23; see also Tr. 3-546:25-548:2 (Romero confirming this was recounted in an email). Tesla did not follow up, show Diaz the video, or interview witnesses after that event. Tr. 3-546:25-548:2, 612:8-614:23. Jackson testified that he interviewed Diaz and Martinez after the incident but did not interview the eyewitness, Rothaj Foster, because he was told by his boss to stop the investigation before it was complete. Tr. 2-387:10-390:18, 2-394:24-395:11. Jackson said he had “[v]ery little” control over how he investigated complaints. Tr. 2-396:8-397:12. Jackie Delgado Smith, a Human Resources representative, testified that Tesla HR was never told of the incident. Tr. 5-954:15-955:6. Subsequently, Diaz and Martinez were both given verbal warnings. Tr. 2395:21-396:7. Martinez still works at Tesla. Tr. 3-571:11."
"Diaz also testified that he complained to Romero several times about being called the N-word. Tr. 3-613:5-14. Romero agreed that he learned Diaz had been complaining about racist conduct, see Tr. 3-542:22-24, 543:13-14, though Romero said Diaz did not complain directly to Romero at least until the Timbreza incident, Tr. 3:561:1-4. Romero testified that he did not personally investigate Diaz's complaints and was specifically told by Tesla to not personally investigate the Timbreza incident. Tr. 3-541:22-542:1, 544:21-545:2, 549:13-550:16. Diaz and Romero both testified that Tesla never fired anyone for using the N-word. Tr. 3-552:10-19, 615:13-15."
"In addition to verbal harassment, Diaz encountered physical symbols of racism and hostility throughout his time at Tesla. On his second day at work, he saw racist graffiti in the bathroom, and continued to see the N-word and swastikas in bathrooms throughout the rest of his employment. Tr. 3-623:1-8. Another Black employee and later supervisor, Michael Wheeler, testified that he regularly saw racist graffiti, including the N-word and swastikas, and that Diaz reported the racist graffiti he saw to Wheeler. Tr. 2-346:17-347:17."
"As they did after the first trial, these factors again favor a high punitive damages award here. First and most importantly, Tesla's actions were grievously reprehensible. Diaz was subjected to a grossly racist workplace, with racist conduct perpetuated not only by coworkers or subordinates but also-and perhaps especially-by supervisors like Martinez, who called Diaz racist slurs and drew the racist picaninny, and Hurtado, who directed the N-word at Diaz over 30 times and informed Diaz that he wished he could get all “N-words” fired. Cf. Flores, 873 F.3d at 760; Zhang, 339 F.3d at 1043. Reports to authority often went unanswered and when the company responded, it often failed to interview witnesses or review security footage. Worse yet, a supervisor who learned of Diaz's complaints subsequently failed to investigate and was in fact told by Tesla to not personally investigate the complaint. Tr. 3-541:22-542:1, 544:21-545:2, 549:13-550:16. Another supervisor was told to stop investigating before he reached a conclusion, and Diaz and his harasser ended up being reprimanded for the conduct directed at Diaz. See Tr. 2387:10-390:18, 395:21-396:7. Martinez, a Tesla supervisor and the main perpetrator of racist conduct, still works at Tesla, nearly a decade after he forced Diaz to endure repeated cruelty and shame. Not only did the company turn a blind eye to the racism, but the jury also could have interpreted the evidence to show that Tesla knew what it was supposed to do and affirmatively chose to not carry out the proper responses. Though Tesla argues its conduct was merely negligent at best, see Mot. Jdgmt. 4:19-5:17 & n.2, the jury could have credited the testimony of any number of witnesses that stated otherwise and demonstrated the company's intentionality and recklessness with respect to failing to maintain a safe, harassment-free workplace."
Until then it is only a gimmick.
And car companies sure very critical for such things.