San Francisco Tried to Build a $1.7M Toilet. It's Still Not Done
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
> Under city law, for example, installing the Noe Valley toilet — even the free one — requires that the Recreation and Parks Department coordinate with or seek approval from San Francisco Public Works, the Planning Department, the Department of Building Inspection, the Arts Commission, the Public Utilities Commission, the Mayor’s Office on Disability, and Pacific Gas and Electric.
Bribes are expensive. The structures created these organizations created in order to make it possible for them to extract bribes are also expensive, even to those who do not pay.
This is just one example. The school district is trying to invent a way to teach algebra to 8th graders. Like it's never been done before, and no other district is doing it successfully:
https://sfeducation.substack.com/p/trash-cans-and-math-polic...
they work well, are actually pleasant to use, and are nigh indestructible.
editing to add that they are for sale for $95000 each.
This was probably a deal breaker in San Francisco.
1. First, they look pretty nice from the outside.
2. Stainless steel, so easy to clean.
3. It's really hard to balance privacy with keeping things from being a haven from drug use and prostitution in urban areas, they seem like they did a great job with that.
4. Price seems reasonable.
a good public restroom needs to be able to be used by the public. i'm guessing that if you were visiting a foreign city/country and needed to use the restroom and found a nice, clean public restroom to use, you'd probably not want to be rained on while relieving yourself.
Exactly, which is why I was impressed with the Portland Loo. You want a toilet that is nice, clean and private so that people using it for its intended purpose will feel comfortable using it. You also can't make it too private or else it will be destroyed by drug addicts and prostitutes. I think they did as good a job as possible balancing these two opposing needs.
I'm not sure this is unusual to San Francisco. Just a couple days ago, I saw Honolulu suggest a new public toilet would cost $1-2 million, along with $400,000 annually in maintenance and damage from vandalism.
Where do I apply for this job?
It’s a bit different of a use-case.
I could build that for under 100k easy and it would be nearly indestructible and easily cleaned, I know because I've done something similar; the materials cost is at best 20k and could be built mostly by unskilled homeless in need of jobs rather than some weird engineered design that demands skilled tradesman.
It's _not_ a hard problem to provide a small number of toilets for the homeless population. SF does have a "pit stop" program of public toilets, which in some cases are just chemical toilets, set up on the sidewalk, with a person that cleans them and logs their use. I walk by one on 14th regularly. It doesn't need to be "indestructible". It doesn't need to be a hard problem.
Sure we do. That's what prisons are for. Because that's the only reliable offering for folks with chronic mental health needs.
Going past that: If patient rights weren't a factor, nothing would change. Long-term, inpatient mental healthcare is an impossibility for most folks who need it.
source: 25 years of marriage to spouse who needed long-term, inpatient treatment but is now homeless instead.
It's like free housing and free healthcare combined; neither of which are possible in the US.
There are enough resources in this world to take care of everyone. We should not tolerate the fact that so many people struggle all their lives at no fault of their own, simply because of the conditions they're born into.
You can help mentally unwell people without locking them up, what are you on about?
I voluntarily take my medication and look upon those poor schizophrenics on the street screaming at birds with pity and sadness because well meaning do gooders don't believe they should be forced to take meds or accept treatment of any kind (because freedom) so they are left to suffer like wounded animals on the street.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_survivors_movement
The reason for the focus on mental illness as a cause is that it stops people from drawing a direct line between a cult of landlord greed and drug addicts defecating outside of your local drugstore.
It's not coincidence that there are armies of them where the rents are highest. We're told is is though.
I believe you are neither wrong nor right. I lived adjacent to a massive homeless community, in a (then) low-cost rural county.
It's been there for decades. It's still there but is larger since housing costs are >2x what they were in 2020.
Are you asking about the connection between rents, regulatory capture and greed? High rents and being on the streets? Or living on the streets being a bit of a cause of mental issues?
It's far better! It's more respectful! It's also incidentally going to let us trim millions from the Health budget so we can pay for the tax cuts for high earners!
The care provided in the community was wisely delegated to the Almighty Invisible Hand of the Free Market, so a bunch of fly-by-night sub-par contractors sprung up to get the government cash and then provide very little care at all, and so large numbers of former patients ended up homeless due to their poorly controlled illness, and well gosh, hard to care for them in the community when you don't know where they live right?
It's an absolute debacle, and a great demonstration that neoliberalism is nothing more a belief set for business people who don't like paying tax.
But I fully agree that homelessness is a great medium for developing mental illness and drug dependencies.
I think you posted this in good faith but reads like a fairy tale. By definition, folks who need long-term inpatient care aren't going to be sufficiently treated by outpatient programs.
My spouse needs long-term, inpatient care. Not permanent care but the adjustments she needs aren't going to take place over 72 hours or 7 days. They're going to take months.
She didn't get the needed months of treatment. She got decades of the fairy tale. She's homeless now and likely will be until it kills her.
I read GP's post as sarcastic, I think you both agree. Thank you for the explanation on why it isn't great though.
It wasn't just mental illness patients affected, it was also those with significant intellectual disabilities. At least there's an NGO sector that could develop the ability to provide housing and care for them.
For an anecdote.
These would have been places with maybe a psychiatrist and some therapists and social workers on staff who would work with the chronically mentally ill to help them navigate society so they didn't fall through the cracks. It was the same idea behind the "Least Restrictive Environment" requirement for No Child Left Behind--people who have problems in society should still be allowed to navigate society with support.
There are options to hellholes that aren't abandonment. But they have to compete with fat justice system budgets.
https://archive.ph/2024.01.24-205525/https://www.nytimes.com...
There are too many words in that sentence, here's a fixed version:
"An expensive public project has come to symbolize bureaucratic inefficiencies."
It applies worldwide.
https://www.ktvu.com/news/san-francisco-pilots-6-competing-t...
The planning process for this toilet has been expedited by city officials.