Now I haven't coded extensively in clojure, so a lot of it stylistic unfamiliarity. It does hold back people from adopting clojure.

One reason why I'm excited never to use the JVM again is the huge memory footprint it uses. The best practices for production java is to figure out how much ram your process will need max under normal (not leaking) usage... and set both max and min ram to that (Xmx and Xms). It's a real hog on ram, and when running under clustered tools like k8 with can do memory overcommits it really reduces your flexibilty.

I'm super psyched for all these tiny go and rust programs that run and use like 50 mb ram or even less. Running a cluster of 50 containers is really no heavier than a single Xmx1g java process!

For interop? Yes. For debugging a JVM in production? That, too. But the same can be said about ClojureScript and ${JAVASCRIPT_HOST}.

I picked up Clojure after a few years of using Common Lisp. Everything I know about Java and the JVM is thanks to using Clojure and deciding to make use of Java libraries when the ecosystem lacks a good library for something I need (e.g. WebAuthn).

My complaints about Clojure usually boil down to lack of performance (when writing idiomatic Clojure as opposed to "Clo-java") and lack of static typing (most Common Lisp compilers do a way better job here). Although I complain a lot about performance, it's ironic many Clojure users will point out to me that Clojure is still faster than Python, Ruby, etc., because I never use those languages and beating them in performance IMO is a very low bar to clear, unless you consider alternative implementations like Truffle Ruby (but then most of the Python/Ruby/etc. ecosystem is incompatible with your implementation).

With that said, Clojure is the only language I know with something like clojure.spec out of the box, and every time I use other languages, I miss being able to treat schemas as data and run transformations on them, especially when dealing with data that has a lot of optional fields (but they are optional only subject to specific conditions). Avoids a lot of repeated subtypes and keeps code concise. I also have an easier time testing Clojure code compared to other languages, in the sense that I rarely have to maintain intricate hierarchies of mock objects and state. Most of my Clojure code tends to be small, pure functions, and stateful things happen at the boundary between e.g. backend and database. So the most complex fixtures I usually have to write is setting up a database.

> there's a lot of baggage like emacs + cider...etc.

I think you were trying to use Clojure in its very early days, when people were still hacking atop of inferior-lisp-mode in order to provide basic Emacs support. While Emacs is still the majority of editor usage in Clojure, the next significant chunk is VS Code users with the Calva plugin. There is also an IntelliJ plugin and it offers (IMO) the best experience for Java interop.

I've been working on a library that targets the JVM, JS/TS, and the .NET CLR. Clojure has let me share about 85% of the code across the three, though to your point the remaining 15% required quite a bit of platform specific knowledge. I'm fortunate to have worked with all the over the years, so Clojure has been a nice power tool that has let me accomplish a lot while working solo. It's not the right tool for every person or every project, though.

Since you've worked with Python, you might enjoy Basilisp. It is essentially Clojure with Python as the host platform.

That was also around the time people had started hyping the JVM as a general language host. Seeing how people struggled on the Clojure mailing list made me rethink that proposition.

Doesn't matter if it is the browser, UNIX, Java, CLR, BEAM,.... eventually that underlying layer will catch one up.

And where is this quote from?

No worries!

  (defn cl-funcall [function & args]
    (apply function args))

Incidentally elisp does a lot better in new Issue count too, although clojure narrowly beats it PR count. On the whole though, I think if you define mainstream to be number of people using it, then elisp probably edges clojure.

C is more than foo{bar}.

A programming language has dimensions like: syntax, semantics, pragmatics, implementations, standards, practice, tools, social/community, libraries, code, ...