Comment by NoZebra120vClip | Hacker News Reader

Comment by NoZebra120vClip | Hacker News Reader

NoZebra120vClip

I tried to maintain a safe deposit box recently, and it was a comedy of errors. Well, it would've been comedy if it hadn't been my valuables at stake in there.

They couldn't get the paperwork right. From the first time I signed up and was issued a box, the paperwork was screwed up in some royal fashion, I would thoroughly read it and point out that they messed it up (always unfavorable to me) and they'd fix it up apologetically. This is a bank. Bankers do paperwork for a living and their livelihood depends on dotting "i"s and crossing "t"s, so to speak!

The worst experience was the second visit when I discovered that my keys no longer worked. Well, I'd brought only one key of course, and when we discovered that it had stopped working, they demanded for me to go back and bring in the twin key to test that one too. Of course it was jammed. I was absolutely appalled. The "senior relationship manager" said the boxes are old and tend to seize up like that. I demanded a letter in writing with their proposal to drill the lock and rekey it, for free, under my supervision.

So I came in on the Drill Day and, you know how they have that little private Viewing Room where you put the box, open it, and inspect its contents? Well, the drilling contractor had put all his tools and toolbox inside that room, so it was full of valuable property already. I was sort of flabbergasted at the clear security breaches they were committing, constantly. This is a bank!!!

So eventually I caught wind that safe deposit boxes are completely deprecated. The last straw is when I asked the banker what would happen in a power outage - could I retrieve my belongings? He said nah, the last power outage they had, the cameras stopped working so they closed and wouldn't allow any customers in. Well, shit, one purpose of having offsite storage was to stash some cash and emergency supplies in case the shit hits the fan, and they're telling me it'll be off-limits in case of the slightest outage or civil unrest.

So I decided that an SDB is useless for my (or anyone's) purposes and I closed it out and said bye-bye. They never screw up the paperwork on my checking or savings accounts.

I liked the start of the Jason Bourne series, Unfortunately, for a lot of emergency scenarios in which you'd want cash and supplies, you wouldn't be able to access your SDB.

One use of SDB that I like is to get estate documents to heirs. My SDB includes a GnuCash one-pager printout of my financial accounts, usually current to within a few months. It also contains a one-pager that documents the remaining info that I think might affect my estate, like what health and renter's insurance policies I had.

Even if a neighbor in my apartment building leaves their unlit gas stove burner on before leaving town for the weekend (yes, this happened), this time obliterating me and any documents at home, heirs will eventually get the SDB, hopefully with exactly the documents they need.

Be sure to speak with a lawyer to confirm that this can be easily accessed when needed. My grandmother passed away a couple years ago and when her account went into estate nobody was able to get into her safe deposit box until well after everything has been situated and properly transferred to the person managing the estate.

In Canada a box can be accessed by the estate. My official will is in an SDB, and there's a copy at home saying where the will is located.

The principal items are my citizenship documentation and copies of keys.

If Canadian estate law is anything like the US, that's a broken setup! Someone will need to file that original will to open a probate, before which there will be nobody with the legal authority to represent the estate and open the box.

This discussion thread made me realize I was just assuming how it would work, without confirming, nor even thinking it through.

From what I understand it's a common mistake. I'm sure there is a straightforward way of resolving the circular dependency, but the last thing an executor needs is another annoying hoop to jump through.

I had all my stuff obliterated last year by a heater left on by someone. Don't keep your backup drive in the same building as your computer... :(

> Well, the drilling contractor had put all his tools and toolbox inside that room, so it was full of valuable property already.

I'm confused, what's the problem here? You were getting your lock drilled. What were you worried about happening?

> Well, shit, one purpose of having offsite storage was to stash some cash and emergency supplies

What made you think a security deposit box is the solution for that, in case of civil unrest? Banks aren't even open in evenings or weekends. The boxes are intended for long-term storage of things you don't need immediately or in an emergency.

Emergency cash and supplies, why wouldn't you keep those at home? Surely you can find a good hiding place if you're concerned about people finding them?

Banks aren’t particularly good at what they do with property. Thee was a story a few years ago about how Bank of America lost millions in cash to shrink in poorly run counting rooms and armored car operations. They hid it for years by moving cash around from branch to branch ahead of the auditors.

Safe Deposit Boxes Aren’t Safe (NYT, 2019)

> There are an estimated 25 million safe deposit boxes in America, and they operate in a legal gray zone within the highly regulated banking industry. There are no federal laws governing the boxes; no rules require banks to compensate customers if their property is stolen or destroyed.

> Every year, a few hundred customers report to the authorities that valuable items — art, memorabilia, diamonds, jewelry, rare coins, stacks of cash — have disappeared from their safe deposit boxes. Sometimes the fault lies with the customer. People remove items and then forget having done so. Others allow children or spouses access to their boxes, and don’t realize that they have been removing things. But even when a bank is clearly at fault, customers rarely recover more than a small fraction of what they’ve lost — if they recover anything at all. The combination of lax regulations and customers not paying attention to the fine print of their box-leasing agreements allows many banks to deflect responsibility when valuables are damaged or go missing...

> Wells Fargo’s safe-deposit-box contract caps the bank’s liability at $500. Citigroup limits it to 500 times the box’s annual rent, while JPMorgan Chase has a $25,000 ceiling on its liability. Banks typically argue — and courts have in many cases agreed — that customers are bound by the bank’s most-current terms, even if they leased their box years or even decades earlier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box...

Exactly. If they can't take care of your stuff, why would they take care of yours!

> What were you worried about happening?

The point of the viewing room is that it starts and ends empty.

This contractor had stored all his equipment and tools in there. Then I had to go and mingle it with my box's contents.

What if he had discovered some drill bits were missing? I could be suspected, because I was alone in private with them, so I could have placed them in my SDB.

I asked the manager what I should do if I find someone else's belongings when I enter the viewing room. They said, that shouldn't happen: I should inform them. Yep.

Most people I know completely skip over SDB's now.

A very large fire proof safe in a hidden room in a house is going to be much more convenient to access documents and probably more safer given the story here.

Banks don't treat these boxes seriously anymore, best to take it in your own hands.

There are well-documented cases of theft from safe deposit boxes at large banks like Wells Fargo, likely from bank staff.

NYT article about it from 2019:

https://archive.ph/fBwSX

I (maybe naively) thought the staff did not have a backup key to the boxes (hence why they charge for drilling if you lose your key). Because if they do it completely defeats the purpose of the SDBs...

If the shit hits the fan to the point that you need emergency supplies, I doubt cash money is going to do much for you.

The government doesn't have to fall for him to need both. A natural disaster or a bad breakup are two scenarios I can think of where cash money is useful.

And there's going to be a breakup during a storm?

What makes you think their location would be natural disaster proof if it can't even handle a blackout?

For what you spend on these hypothetical scenarios on an ongoing basis, you may as well just figure out a much better method—like keeping cash on you, in the house, in your vehicle. Like cameras, the best one is the one you have on you.

"Bugout bags" probably way more sensible over this nonsense.

I mean, "shit hits the fan" can be a personal tragedy or local one.

Like you have to leave your home in a rush to not be covered in lava, like on Iceland.

Either the bank is out of harms way and you can get your stuff a few hours/days later, or the bank staff need to GTFO just like you do and won't be around to let you in.

Ye, true. I defer.

"Bug out bags" make way more sense if you live in an area where there's volcanic activity. Nobody is going to fuck around going to some deposit box, and no employer in their right mind is going to keep staff working in a disaster zone. Besides, good luck coaxing people to stay in an area where they might get burnt or suffocated.

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